Offensive rebounding

[RocketTMac1]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rashidi

Just remembered one more factor - The Badges System Last year we only had one tier, this year we have three tiers which has lead to tons of players getting badges. I'll go down the list but I'm sure there are a ton more players with some level of "Tenacious Rebounder" and "Hustle Points" than there were last year. Hustle Points - Adept at making shots immediately following offensive rebounds near the basket. GOLD - John Henson, Joakim Noah, Tristan Thompson SILVER - Ersan Ilyasova, Jabari Parker, Kevin Love, Anderson Varejao BRONZE - Nerlens Noel, Henry Sims, Larry Sanders, Taj Gibson, Shawn Marion, Shane Edwards Tenacious Rebounder - Will most often win boxout battles and can more easily knock the ball loose from opposing rebounders. GOLD - Joakim Noah, Taj Gibson, Kevin Love, Tristan Thompson, Anderson Varejao SILVER - Larry Sanders BRONZE - Nerlens Noel This is just four teams in. It seems very likely to me that this abundance of badges is breaking the game more than ever. The ratings might be balanced but when you give half the bigs in the league these skills/badges it destroys that. This is obviously a very difficult problem as 2K is obviously very invested in this badge system and also took great lengths to fix their rosters and ratings. Yet their ambitions here are seemingly canceling out their efforts. Ratings make the game balanced, badges make the game arcadey yet are surely in high demand. I'm not saying they should go away (in fact I happen to like them quite a bit), and it's still early, but this is probably a situation where "more" is not "better". (I should note that I haven't observed any issues w/ other badges, but in this case it magnifies an existing problem).

[Vni]

Quote: Originally Posted by highzman28

Just my 2 cents I currently played about 20-30 games with various teams all on SS/Sim and I don't have a rebounding problem. If needed I set my POE to crash boards if the other team has better rebounding etc or looks to be attacking ty boards. When I'm a user controlled player in the paint I box out etc So with that said I enjoy the game like it is...

Believe me I did that. I did it in the middle of the 3rd quarter because Drummond was already heating up. I'll see if I see this pattern happen again as I play more. I'am supposed to give up O rebounds to the pistons with the bucks but 10 in the 4th is a lot of offensive rebounds.

[Taer]

For the most part, offensive rebounding is quite good. At times, there are ridiculous sequences but they are very few and far between as compared to earlier 2K's.

An example of a ridiculous sequence: Iggi was driving in but was forced into taking a bad fading shot near the base. The ball hits the rim hard and ricochets out to Klay Thompson at the top of the three point arc. He takes the shot and clanks it off the back. Bogut gets the rebound and attempts a put-back which misses but he recovers gets it a second time and attempts another putback. This second putback misses and the ball hits Bogut in the back and stays caught there until Lee takes it off his back and sinks a third putback attempt.

I did not mind the rebounds - Bogut ended up with a normal amount at the end of the game (9). It just seems weird that they did not kick the ball back out after the 2nd rebound.

[RocketTMac1]

Quote: Originally Posted by Vni

Believe me I did that. I did it in the middle of the 3rd quarter because Drummond was already heating up. I'll see if I see this pattern happen again as I play more. I'am supposed to give up O rebounds to the pistons with the bucks but 10 in the 4th is a lot of offensive rebounds.

I'm also wondering if fatigue rate has something to do with this. As guys who rebound at a steady rate when they are on the court most of the times tire or are foul prone. I've played a good 25 games and guys like Boogie, Drummond, etc have a good 12 rebounds by the end of the 3rd quarter with me focusing on them and don't have but 2 fouls.

[stillfeelme]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rashidi

Czar I'm sure we have discussed this before. One of the biggest problem with offensive rebounds pertains to rim physics. Shots do not miss realistically. Threes don't lead to long rebounds. The reason 3pt cheesing has been so successful over the years isn't just that players were draining unrealistic shots but they weren't being penalized for doing so - in fact they were benefitting from it. Since rebounds don't go long, 3pt spammers don't have to deal with fastbreaks, and they get plenty of high percentage offensive rebounds down low because the defensive breakdowns leading to that 3pt shot likewise destroyed any semblance of box balance. Further, it seems like teams are helpless after ORBs to do anything except give up an uncontested shot (players with the highest ORB ratings also have the highest Standing Dunk ratings). FWIW it does not seem like the rebound ratings are a problem this year, they were slightly unbalanced in favor of ORBs last season but it seems fair now. I don't know enough about 2K15 to say if athleticism ratings (new or otherwise) are a significant factor, this is just what I observed over 3 games. Average reb rate by pos Off/Def PG: 42/42 SG: 44/42 SF: 57/61 PF: 75/78 C: 82/81

Man I have been bringing up the long rebounding issue for at least two years. I have put it on multiple I repeat multiple wishlist/gameplay threads. Most of the rebound ratings are pretty good but almost every single rebound lands in the exact same place perfectly right in from of the rim. Only to be converted for an automatic putback layup for the CPU

• I think the core issue is the actual frequency of where the actual offensive rebound falls, then as you said the success of getting the second shot

• The CPU knows to go right to center of the rim and wait for the ball because 95% of the time it is going to land right there regardless of shot taken.
• There are very few guess wrong scenarios when rebounding in this game. You may see a missed putback dunk attempt but very few if at all guess wrong on the position of the rebound. Every person is programmed to be at a given area for a reason. The good rebounding ones just wait at the front of the rim box out jump.
• Dev's who work on this. Every offense rebound should not fall right in front of the rim, some land outside the lane they clank hard and the position varies. Some land in the lane but further away from the restricted area. Even great rebounders don't guess right all the time on where the ball is going to go.
• This article has old data but is still valid http://www.82games.com/comm13.htm I will highlight some things. The success rate of completing a shot right back up was 50% after getting the rebound. Some of the elite guys were at 60+%. During that season after the initial rebound 20% of all attempts was a jumper 45% attempted a close shot and shot 51%. 27% of the attempts where tip shots and shot 49%. Only 8% were dunk attempts and they shot 88% after the rebound.
• What they need to do is contact the guys that wrote this to get the data to see where shots go. http://www.sloansportsconference.com...Rebounding.pdf Page 3

[Bornindamecca]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rashidi

Czar I'm sure we have discussed this before. One of the biggest problem with offensive rebounds pertains to rim physics. Shots do not miss realistically. Threes don't lead to long rebounds. The reason 3pt cheesing has been so successful over the years isn't just that players were draining unrealistic shots but they weren't being penalized for doing so - in fact they were benefitting from it. Since rebounds don't go long, 3pt spammers don't have to deal with fastbreaks, and they get plenty of high percentage offensive rebounds down low because the defensive breakdowns leading to that 3pt shot likewise destroyed any semblance of box balance. Further, it seems like teams are helpless after ORBs to do anything except give up an uncontested shot (players with the highest ORB ratings also have the highest Standing Dunk ratings).

We discussed this exact point on the show and all agreed it was an issue.

[Vni]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rashidi

Ratings make the game balanced, badges make the game arcadey yet are surely in high demand. I'm not saying they should go away (in fact I happen to like them quite a bit), and it's still early, but this is probably a situation where "more" is not "better".

Rashidi hits the nail on the head with that post. I hadn't messed too much with stacked teams yet and I did earlier this afternoon. Playing the Cavs made the game feel very different and arcadey all of a sudden.

In the middle of the 3rd quarter I started paying attention to Love as he was grabbing a lot of offensive rebounds and if he wasn't grabbing them he always seemed to be in a better postion than my bigs who where set to crash the defensive boards at this point. So the next three possessions (or close to that) I've stopped and replayed the actions.



So at the begining of the first possession I play hands up defense with Hill on Love, and then switch to Lin to contest that shot. You can see Wesley Jonhson on the left just standing there. Meanwhile Love has free access to the paint.

On the second clip Boozer grabs the rebound but once again, Love doesn't get boxed out by my AI controlled teammate.

On the third possession Love is still not boxed out by my teammate and grabs two rebounds. The 2nd one he grabs it in the hands of Hill after he morphed through him.

Looks to me like 2K should have a good look at what badge belongs in the game and what badge doesn't because it is kind of disgusting.

[Baller85]

Offensive rebounding seems to be an issue for me because there are issues with defensive rebounding. I play money games on GamerSaloon and we play HOF sim settings. I was playing as the Bulls vs the Knicks and Dalembert/Stoudemire/Anthony were getting an insane amount of offensive boards against what's supposed to be the best/one of the best rebounding teams in the league.

My guys seem to run away from the ball and get out of position instead of boxing out when the ball goes up. I've experienced that in every game I've played so far, not just the example I gave. Even when I have my defensive POE on crash boards for rebounding I still experience this issue. Guys will slide out of position, won't box out, and give up offensive rebounds. It doesn't happen all the time, but it's pretty frequent considering the guy that used the Knicks had 10 or 11 offensive boards against the Bulls playing 4 minute quarters.

Video evidence:



As you can see Jimmy Butler doesn't make any effort to box out Anthony and he gets an easy board. Noah missed the board also... and it turned into a 3 point play. You can see I also checked to see if I had crash defensive boards on and I did.