MLB The Show Graphics Discussion Thread

[puppies_on_acid]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cod

I highly doubt the in-house game engine they're using supports PBR workflows. UE didn't support it until 4.XX and not sure when Unity did, but I know it does. DICE was updating the Frostbite engine to support PBR workflows, but not sure if that was completed and/or released. I just remember them discussing the roadmap at a convention I attended a few years back. EDIT: Looks like EA started the conversion in late 2014. Still unsure if/when it was completed. Source - https://www.ea.com/frostbite/news/mo...rostbite-to-pb

We already know the engine supports PBR to an extent. That was a feature showcase for The Show '16. But as I mentioned in a previous post several pages back, their implementation is very minimal and it isn't applied to a lot of stuff in the game.

Here's the video where they talk about it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3bFjR_9qWA

[Cod]

Quote: Originally Posted by puppies_on_acid

We already know the engine supports PBR to an extent. That was a feature showcase for The Show '16. But as I mentioned in a previous post several pages back, their implementation is very minimal and it isn't applied to a lot of stuff in the game. Here's the video where they talk about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3bFjR_9qWA

Thanks for sharing. After watching a few times, the entire focus seemed to be on the lighting engine. However, that will only help so much if you aren't starting with quality assets. PBR relies heavily on texture and model quality if you want realism and frankly, from what I've seen, a lot of the textures used in MLBTS aren't quite good enough to support PBR. Memory limitations? Framerate limitations? It could be any number of things.

[puppies_on_acid]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cod

Thanks for sharing. After watching a few times, the entire focus seemed to be on the lighting engine. However, that will only help so much if you aren't starting with quality assets. PBR relies heavily on texture and model quality if you want realism and frankly, from what I've seen, a lot of the textures used in MLBTS aren't quite good enough to support PBR. Memory limitations? Framerate limitations? It could be any number of things.

I agree. For PBR you will run into memory limitations, but really only if it isn't optimized correctly.

[canes21]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cod

When animations load in new, modern gameplay engines, they expect the player to be in (or very near) a specific spot. Thus, when the animation is triggered, if the player is outside that determined zone, the player is "transported" to the zone. If this was true, then the development teams at EA Canada and EA Tiburon would have eliminated many of the animation problems related to gameplay they've had since moving to Frostbite. The "skating" animation in FIFA is a prime example of this. The NBA 2K series made an engine jump after NBA2k14 and that's the same time people started complaining about the gameplay regressing. Granted, they have almost 10 years to fix the problem and they've done a great job; however, they're also using a custom engine built for basketball (not sure if it's still Eco-Motion or not).

Many of these developers have done well to reduce sliding around when animations play out. Animation technology has definitely improved over the years, but you're not going to eliminate sliding around and minuscule teleporting unless you go heavily into the motion matching and procedural route which still is not something you see often.

Modern engines are not any worse than past engines when it comes to sliding, skating, etc. That stuff is only as bad as the development team allows it to be. It used to be a lot worse in sports games than it is now, but it obviously is still an issue at times. It's the nature of having games revolving around sports where things happen so quickly and require so much precision in so many during facets.

Until they are able to create a system in their engines that allows for animations to properly adjust on the fly, we're always going to be dealing with some sliding around. The devs can only hope to get in enough animations to really hide it as best they can.

[Cod]

Quote: Originally Posted by canes21

Until they are able to create a system in their engines that allows for animations to properly adjust on the fly, we're always going to be dealing with some sliding around. The devs can only hope to get in enough animations to really hide it as best they can.

Agree with what you're saying and unfortunately, not sure were ever going to get there without game engines designed specifically for sports games. I thought EA did a great job with the IGNITE engine as it was on it's way to greatness, but unfortunately, they dropped it way to soon for Frostbite.

[canes21]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cod

Agree with what you're saying and unfortunately, not sure were ever going to get there without game engines designed specifically for sports games. I thought EA did a great job with the IGNITE engine as it was on it's way to greatness, but unfortunately, they dropped it way to soon for Frostbite.

We will. Sports games are far from the only ones dealing with this issue. Any game with melee combat of any sort also deals with it a lot. So many RPGs. Even game like The Witcher series have pretty of sliding around to get everyone in the right spots for their animations.

Game engines are getting more and more powerful and as things become more and more common, advancements will be made to where we get to a point where things like procedural animations are the standard and not the outlier.

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[ltw0303cavs]

Also keep in mind whatever engine is used would have to be cross platform. Unity for example. The reality is the planning for a new engine should have taken place years ago, they knew this engine was limited. I think what bothers me the most is when asked about Stadium Creator Ramone said "we dont want to do it ? until we can do it right." Well you haven't done franchise right, this whole "well we created March to October to be the new franchise because the engine limits Franchise mode" Except March to October has been out for how long ? and it still is as limited as franchise. So MOT, Franchise and Stadium Creator are all half baked features.

[BIGBLUEFAN2023]

As an Old School Gamer, I'm still blown away with how realistic these games look, but I certainly get that there's always room for improvement.

Personally, I would much rather they use the resources on making the gameplay as realistic as possible, as well as to add a few more roster editing enhancements. They still need to add challenges at every base, the pickoff throw limit, and the pitch clock. I also would love to see them work on a much more user friendly roster editor on the main menu, as well as the ability to edit managers and coaches. To me, those would make the game experience a whole lot better.

But I still get a lot of enjoyment out of MLB the Show as it is and always get pumped about the new game dropping every spring. Can't wait until March 15th!