Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth (Remake Part 2, PS5)

[jasontoddwhitt]

Quote: Originally Posted by pietasterp

Longtime fan of the original game and Final Fantasy series in general; played the demo last night. I think I'm just old-school, but I can see the combat getting boring over the many hours this game will demand. I realize I had no idea what I was doing and I'm sure as you get facile with the system, it can be deeper/more rewarding, but I felt like I was just hitting 'square' over and over and then explosions of numbers would just happen all over the screen. It seemed pretty repetitive and not all that rewarding on first impression. I always think of party-based combat when I think of RPG's and Final Fantasy games in general, and I guess there's no real way to do that with an action-RPG. My favorite combat system was from 'Final Fantasy XIII', which, once you got used to it (and the game opened up a bit later on), was pretty much a perfect balance of action and party/command-based combat. It could be exciting and fast-paced, but you never got bogged down with micro-managing one party member, and it felt like managing the overall important strategy of a battle vs individual strikes/hits. Now that Final Fantasy has apparently just gone action-RPG for the combat, the games just seem like "Devil May Cry" with more cut scenes, which doesn't particularly appeal to me.

The combat system in FFVII: Remake/Rebirth is nothing like FFXVI or Devil May Cry (with XVI, yes, that's an accurate claim, considering members of DMC development were on the team for FFXVI). The combat system in Remake and Rebirth is rewarding, fulfilling, and much more than "just hitting square." And I'm a fan of the turn-based RPGs of the past.

Did you ever play FFVII: Remake? Because this comment screams you didn't.

[bcruise]

I like how this game encourages frequent character switching more than Remake, because some of the time limits on completing the *many* combat challenges on the game are strict enough that you really need to. ATB just doesn't fill up fast enough on the non-controlled characters, and that's 100% by design.

I feel like fighting the summons at full strength might be endgame-type challenges - even after beating them at weaker strength (from finding specific locations in the open world) you can still refight them at their full power. So far, those have been the most engaging and challenging battles in the game for me.

Dynamic is such a great difficulty setting. With as much as there is to do in the open world you can overlevel the content pretty easily. Enemies scaling with you ala FF8 means that I should theoretically always be getting a challenge throughout the game no matter how much side content I want to do.

[mpklub]

Quote: Originally Posted by jasontoddwhitt

The combat system in FFVII: Remake/Rebirth is nothing like FFXVI or Devil May Cry (with XVI, yes, that's an accurate claim, considering members of DMC development were on the team for FFXVI). The combat system in Remake and Rebirth is rewarding, fulfilling, and much more than "just hitting square." And I'm a fan of the turn-based RPGs of the past. Did you ever play FFVII: Remake? Because this comment screams you didn't.

Yeah I have to second this post.

Combat in Remake and Rebirth is more or less a modernized turn based system IMO.

You use the square attack to build up your ATB which is going to give you access to your abilities and skills which are necessary for combat. Especially against bosses. I'm speaking more about Remake because I am only in Chapter 2 in Rebirth, the combat systems foundation in Rebirth is clearly taking what Remake used and building off of it.

If you're looking for old school turn based in terms of player characters on the right, monsters on the left, input commands this is not that.

But the system is NOT a button mashing system. Button mashing alone will get you killed. I seriously doubt either Remake or Rebirth can be beaten by just button mashing. You've got to learn how to use abilities, exploit weaknesses and manage your party effectively.

That said, I get the overarching desire for old school turn based rpgs. I think final fantasy and JRPGs in general have moved away from those too much. I loved XIIIs system and X actually is my all time favorite combat system in Final Fantasy. I think Remake and what I've played so far of Rebirth do a really good job of combining old school turn based with more modern gameplay design.

Sent from my SM-S928U1 using Tapatalk

[pietasterp]

Quote: Originally Posted by jasontoddwhitt

The combat system in FFVII: Remake/Rebirth is nothing like FFXVI or Devil May Cry (with XVI, yes, that's an accurate claim, considering members of DMC development were on the team for FFXVI). The combat system in Remake and Rebirth is rewarding, fulfilling, and much more than "just hitting square." And I'm a fan of the turn-based RPGs of the past. Did you ever play FFVII: Remake? Because this comment screams you didn't.

Quote: Originally Posted by bcruise

I like how this game encourages frequent character switching more than Remake, because some of the time limits on completing the *many* combat challenges on the game are strict enough that you really need to. ATB just doesn't fill up fast enough on the non-controlled characters, and that's 100% by design. I feel like fighting the summons at full strength might be endgame-type challenges - even after beating them at weaker strength (from finding specific locations in the open world) you can still refight them at their full power. So far, those have been the most engaging and challenging battles in the game for me. Dynamic is such a great difficulty setting. With as much as there is to do in the open world you can overlevel the content pretty easily. Enemies scaling with you ala FF8 means that I should theoretically always be getting a challenge throughout the game no matter how much side content I want to do.

Quote: Originally Posted by mpklub

Yeah I have to second this post. Combat in Remake and Rebirth is more or less a modernized turn based system IMO. You use the square attack to build up your ATB which is going to give you access to your abilities and skills which are necessary for combat. Especially against bosses. I'm speaking more about Remake because I am only in Chapter 2 in Rebirth, the combat systems foundation in Rebirth is clearly taking what Remake used and building off of it. If you're looking for old school turn based in terms of player characters on the right, monsters on the left, input commands this is not that. But the system is NOT a button mashing system. Button mashing alone will get you killed. I seriously doubt either Remake or Rebirth can be beaten by just button mashing. You've got to learn how to use abilities, exploit weaknesses and manage your party effectively. That said, I get the overarching desire for old school turn based rpgs. I think final fantasy and JRPGs in general have moved away from those too much. I loved XIIIs system and X actually is my all time favorite combat system in Final Fantasy. I think Remake and what I've played so far of Rebirth do a really good job of combining old school turn based with more modern gameplay design. Sent from my SM-S928U1 using Tapatalk

Appreciate the thoughts. Let me clarify a bit so I'm not "hit-and-run"'ing with my comment.

The FF7 Rebirth demo originally had only a small bit of the Nibelheim flashback section, which is primarily cutscenes and a bit of wandering around the town, with only a small number of combat sections where it's basically just Cloud in 1-v-horde battles. For that section of the game as it is in the demo, I stand by my original impression that those were let's say less-than-strategic exercises in combat.

However.... (in best Stephen A Smith voice)

There has been a subsequent demo update released that allows you to roam around Junon with a full party and pick fights with random monster groups in more 'classical' FF type battles w/ 3 characters in your party at a time, and I now understand the points made above: I would agree that the full-party battles are not simply exercises in hitting 'square'.

In fact, they remind me a lot of the battles from FFXIII (which is my favorite battle system in recent memory). Essentially, the battles boil down to using non-damage-inflicting but stagger-bar-building attacks ("Ravager" paradigm in FFXIII parlance), then once you have the enemy staggered, switching to power-melee attacks ("Commando" paradigm) to pound the stuffing out of them until they get back up, and then you repeat. "Ground and pound", and it can be very satisfying.

My only issue is that this is basically the same system (strategically/philosophically) as FFXIII, except with the added layer of having to individually control each party member, vs. just telling everyone to "use stagger-building attacks" (e.g. put everyone into a "Ravager" paradigm), which is a bit more tedious IMO. This is especially true since the CPU-controlled party members will not build ATB if you don't specifically control them, so you basically have to switch to each party member, use ATB-building attacks, switch to the next party member and repeat, etc., then use your abilities to amplify those effects until you get them down and then empty the tank while they're on their back. It's not "bad", it just seems like an unnecessarily micro-managing way to accomplish what FFXIII did with a more streamlined input that macro-managed all party members simultaneously.

At any rate, it's a better system than FF16, which 100% is Devil May Cry, basically.

Quote: Originally Posted by mpklub

That said, I get the overarching desire for old school turn based rpgs. I think final fantasy and JRPGs in general have moved away from those too much. I loved XIIIs system and X actually is my all time favorite combat system in Final Fantasy. I think Remake and what I've played so far of Rebirth do a really good job of combining old school turn based with more modern gameplay design.

(emphasis mine above)

Yes, as I mentioned in my post that kicked off this discussion on the previous page, I think FFXIII pretty much nailed the stagger-beat-repeat style of combat, and I enjoyed that system by far the most of the recent Final Fantasies. I wish they'd go back to that - it could be very engaging and actually opened up a lot of variety later on if you went back and completed all the monster-hunts on Gran Pulse, which I guess most people didn't. But controlling the whole party seemed a lot more engaging than having to switch to each party member just to get them to do what you want them to do (which, most of the time, is just build ATB/stagger).

[JazzMan]

Just got to Costa del Sol

This might be my favorite game of all-time. Good lord that Junon parade and then the ship voyage to the other continent was peak

Queen's Blood is addicting

Spoiler

The JENOVA build-up and fight did not disappoint. Barrett lowkey digging his sailor get-up and Red XIII going full Karen over the tournament rules just to pretend he's a Shinra trooper so he can participate lol.

About 20 hours in after clearing everything in the Grasslands and Junon. Trying my best not to no-life this thing and finish in a week lol I want to savor it a bit

[Review]

On the fence with this one. Played FFVII: Remake during COVID and thought it was great. Had a lot of time on my hands tho. I just don't have the time to complete 50/60 hr game sanymore.

[ChaseB]

I can say now I had this game a month before it was out and put like 125 hours into it. I think the end is legit really bad plane landing but it's still an incredible game. I think of the last three FF games (all bangers), I'd go:

FF Remake 1 > FF 16 > FF Remake 2 (but, again, they all rip)