Passing in the paint ?

[younggrease]

Quote: Originally Posted by xrobbyh14x

To answer Czar...yes. How many 3-on-2 or 2-on-1 fast breaks are stopped without a bucket in real life? That's the simplest way I can put it. I was able to use my high pass rating to do just fine in 2k11, wouldn't mind it being about the same for 2k12.

You still have to execute. Same way you have to execute in the game. Fast break is all about creating angles, timing and making solid choices. Same things work in the game.

[jeebs9]

Quote: Originally Posted by youALREADYknow

I understand that, but that seems to be the only thing focused on in this discussion. Does nobody see anything wrong with actual passing in the paint even in the half court offense?

The high-low offense between big men doesn't exist. I wish when a guy got fronted that someone would cut to the free throw line for the easy touch pass inside.

[jeebs9]

Quote: Originally Posted by youALREADYknow

Off topic: The biggest problem I have with the fast break (and all open court play in general) is that players don't run. Look at LeBron or D. Rose on a fast break and they are blowing by defenders at full speed. Look at them in 2K and they have this silly running animation like they have a stick up their behinds. I know this isn't something likely to be patched, but they need to improve running animations in 2K13. Players movement in this game feels like Madden from a few years ago.

I'm very sorry... I didn't mean to derail the thread at all. I thought we were talking about passing on the break as well.

[ruxpinke]

Quote: Originally Posted by theenemy

this can be fixed with slider adjustments - every time I see something fishy I do an instant replay and adjust sliders to fix the fishiness - example: I am at the 3PT line with the ball - teammate cuts towards the baseline and the AI defender is closely following him (not looking at me, cannot physically see me, trying to 'deny the ball' to my cutter) I lead pass to my cutter (lead pass because I am trying to move my cutter even farther from his defender, making the pass safer) and the moment I press the pass button the defending AI player turns his head (at least they turn their head now - they would just raise their hands without looking in earlier versions) to see I am passing and steals it. psychic. maybe not the best description but this is something that I was able to fix with slider adjustments - I guess it is a combination of (in the order of importance): defensive awareness, play passing lanes, steal success anyway, I strongly suggest giving pro/default a chance and go from there. edit: my post might have been a little off topic considering the OP title. but passing and the defensive reactions and the associated outcomes are all related.

im playing pro default and having a blast. the situation you described is the only thing that really really irks me. im afraid to tweak too much. if you have it reduced would you be willing to share your adjustments.

[MeloNYK7]

Quote: Originally Posted by blues rocker

my feelings exactly...all they had to do to stop the lead passing was improve the help defense on the interior (which they did)...they DID NOT need to slow down the passing as well...now i can't even complete a legit pass because they made the passing so slow and crappy. it feels like they just went too far in an attempt to prevent inside passing that they now limit people who are just trying to make a legit pass through an actual opening. the lead passing wasn't the problem...the problem was the lazy, unaware help defenders that didn't rotate over during and after the lead pass.

couldn't have said it any better, i feel like slow passes in the paint and around the perimeter is not the way to fix cheesing, it just creates another problem. lead passes can be limited with better AI reaction to the lead pass. nothing is more frustrating than the CPU just starring into space while a lead pass goes right by them for an easy score. but faster passer would make the game have a better flow and have better ball movement.

[Sundown]

Quote: Originally Posted by Da_Czar

Men and bretheren i have read about the difficulty of making passing intothe paint. Specifically 2-1 3-2 fastbreaks. Would you still want that loosened up a bit if it meant cheesers may be able to exploit it more if it is ? So IF we got them to slow the ai reaction down are you okay with what that could mean in the wrong hands ? Please keep this on topic as far as the this specific passing issue. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Maybe slowing down the defender reaction a tiny bit and/or getting them to commit to a player like real life basketball might be necessary-- but I think the first thing to try is speeding up the passes to realistic speeds and improving the pass logic to use chest, lobs and bounce passes more appropriately.

Sidenote: Since they've taken control of the type of pass away from us, I almost feel that in most cases, the AI should try the pass that avoids the defenders-- so a pass into a crowd with defenders in the passing lane should be a lob. Of course elite passers should be more accurate, and it should fail often/most of the time with poor passers, and it should be balanced so that even elite passers will get intercepted/be off target/have the ball be bobbled a fair amount of the time with poor decisions. I think it already kind of does this, especially on some cross court passes, but the AI could be tightened up.

[thugnificant]

nothing wrong with passing into the paint people just dont pay attention to defensive players position because they never had to in past games

[Sundown]

Quote: Originally Posted by Da_Czar

The scope of that argument is too big for what I am talking about here brother blues. I want to concentrate on this one aspect here as it will effect how I word my feedback on this one issue.

I understand that it might help to narrow down the analysis to fast breaks, but if the problem is more fundamental, wouldn't the right fix be to address the root problem rather than tinker with adding situational band aids or tinkering with things that might have adverse affects?

A lot of folks have looked at and thought about the effects of the passing flaws, and I know you have too. Seems a sensible thing to try is speeding up the passes a bit, improving the passing logic, and if necessary, relaxing the defense a bit and then seeing how the game plays out. Adjusting the pass defense alone might be problematic because of how slow the passes are. To nerf the defensive AI so much that it is ineffectual even against some slow, lobby, telegraphed passes the pass AI forces on us seems like it would cause potential breakdowns in other areas.

Quote: Originally Posted by Da_Czar

For the question of can you speed up passes. The short answer is not without messing something else up. It is a delicate balance with multiple factors you don't wanna do that in a patch situation. Believe me! LOL Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I really hope this will be reconsidered. It would seriously concern me if the whole game is balanced around slow lobby passes and bad pass logic.

Also, I think a lot of us feel that the game is *already* out of balance, given the strength of the AI defense and the slow passes. And it already affects a number of areas, including poor user fast breaks, unexpected turnovers (leading to fast breaks that shouldn't happen), and zones that can't be cracked conventionally (and are beaten only because of the unrealistic 3 point percentage). I think speeding up the passes a bit is worth a try at this point to see if more things will be brought into balance than knocked out of balance. I also remember reading a couple times that passes would be more responsive and snappier this year. Curious-- whatever happened to that?

The slow passes are also causing problems online. Combined with how little users are punished for steal spamming, it leads to too many turnovers and a dunk fest. Players can double team, steal spam, force the pass, then capitalize on the flawed pass engine. I know this is what pressure is supposed to do, but slow lobby passes hurt sensible ball movement.