2011-12 Big East Thread

[ehh]

The thing is that UConn and Syracuse have booty football programs and legendary basketball coaches with a few years left before they ride off into the sunset. Let's be real, neither Cuse or UConn basketball will be at the same level a decade from now with their successors. Indiana, UCLA, Kentucky, etc couldn't do it - neither will those two programs.

For the ACC and Pitt/Cuse (and likely UConn) this move could result in a very, very average conference down the road. You're going to have a 16-team conference that will basically have FSU and VaTech (assuming VaTech doesn't bolt for the SEC). That's one or two good football programs and 14 that aren't good, aren't entertaining and aren't going to bring in TV ratings.

Basketball-wise it's probably largely going to remain Duke and UNC long-term and 14 so-so basketball programs. UConn's fanbase will waiver in the post-JC era with so many other teams in the area and CT largely being a pro market. Syracuse will probably remain strong in terms of fan support but the quality of their teams will likely decrease.

The ACC is going to remain a distant fourth the SEC, Pac-1x and B1G in football and who knows for basketball. They'll have the most brand-names but I don't know what the quality will be long-term.

[Cardot]

Quote: Originally Posted by bigeastbumrush

Non-football schools. Won't make sense for the A$$...err...I mean ACC. .

Why not? I am guessing not enough $$$ in hoops?

Quote: Originally Posted by bigeastbumrush

For a commission so hell bent on keeping money out the players' hands...the NCAA sure are lining their pockets from all these moves, huh.

Yes, there is quite the double standard between the universities themselves and the players.

[bigeastbumrush]

Quote: Originally Posted by ehh

The thing is that UConn and Syracuse have booty football programs and legendary basketball coaches with a few years left before they ride off into the sunset. Let's be real, neither Cuse or UConn basketball will be at the same level a decade from now with their successors. Indiana, UCLA, Kentucky, etc couldn't do it - neither will those two programs.

What do you mean here?

All 3 of those teams are "back" because of recruiting. Did they have a downswing because a coach left? Yes. But those programs are in incredible positions at this point. It's not like they were ever perennial locks to win the tourney.

I don't mind a great team having 2-3 mediocre years as long as they remain a force.

Quote: Originally Posted by Cardot

Why not? I am guessing not enough $$$ in hoops?

Well...like ehh said...the push is clearly for football money...not bball. And with a program like Miami being basically nothing...the ACC will completely suck when it comes to football. Why bring in those schools when they're only going to bring in revenue from just one sport?

[ehh]

Simple...

Bobby Knight left and IU has never been the same.
John Wooden left and UCLA has never been the same.
Adolph Rupp left and Kentucky has never been the same.

Indiana hasn't won a title the modern era (shot clock + field of 64), UK has two thanks to Pitino's phenomenal coaching job during that era and UCLA has one.

In terms of right now, IU has a ways to go and certainly isn't "back", UK will be the one-n-done factory until Calipari gets them on probation and sets the program back 5-8 years and UCLA can't even dominate a horrible Pac-1x.

Plus UConn and Syracuse's openings will never be viewed in the same breathe as the original bluebloods. Though it sounds like both programs will hire the replacement from within the program.

[bigeastbumrush]

Quote: Originally Posted by ehh

Simple... Bobby Knight left and IU has never been the same. John Wooden left and UCLA has never been the same. Adolph Rupp left and Kentucky has never been the same. Indiana hasn't won a title the modern era (shot clock + field of 64), UK has two thanks to Pitino's phenomenal coaching job during that era and UCLA has one. In terms of right now, IU has a ways to go and certainly isn't "back", UK will be the one-n-done factory until Calipari gets them on probation and sets the program back 5-8 years and UCLA can't even dominate a horrible Pac-1x. Plus UConn and Syracuse's openings will never be viewed in the same breathe as the original bluebloods. Though it sounds like both programs will hire the replacement from within the program.

You're talking powerhouses.

I wouldn't compare any modern team to the UCLA dynasty.

Indiana took a major dip but they're sitting with the Top ranked class for next year...for now at least.

The Lavin-era at UCLA was pretty damn good & consistent.

Kentucky is a top program.

I think most fans are just looking for competitiveness and consistency, year in & year out with annual tourney bids.

If a team completely falls off the map, then we're talking a different story.

But the moves make the ACC better, basketball wise, and the Big East worst.

Can Cuse & Pitt turn the ACC into a 4 team competitive race? Hell yeah.
Can a non-Calhoun coached UConn team run with UNC & Duke...I'll say yes until I see otherwise.

[ehh]

Quote: Originally Posted by bigeastbumrush

You're talking powerhouses. I wouldn't compare any modern team to the UCLA dynasty. Indiana took a major dip but they're sitting with the Top ranked class for next year...for now at least. The Lavin-era at UCLA was pretty damn good & consistent. Kentucky is a top program. I think most fans are just looking for competitiveness and consistency, year in & year out with annual tourney bids. If a team completely falls off the map, then we're talking a different story. But the moves make the ACC better, basketball wise, and the Big East worst. Can Cuse & Pitt turn the ACC into a 4 team competitive race? Hell yeah. Can a non-Calhoun coached UConn team run with UNC & Duke...I'll say yes until I see otherwise.

Of course I'm talking powerhouses, that was my entire point. The handful legendary coaches (which the Jims are a part of) make and define a program. When they leave, the program is never the same. Outside of North Carolina with Roy Williams you can argue that no program has been as good after a legendary coach left. If they've come close, it's because they were able to hire another phenomenal coach that lived up to the hype (many have tried and failed obviously).

I don't think fans of any powerhouse are happy with tournament bids, we want Final Fours. Are we spoiled? Yeah, but success does that. It's no longer an exciting or remarkable season when UConn makes the Elite 8. I hope I'm never satisfied post-JC with a Sweet 16 season. I want our bar to remain high - cutting down the nets is the goal.

I'm sure a non-JC UConn team can run with UNC & Duke but running with them and still winning national championships are two very different things.

Hell just look at how hard Maryland fell with Williams still at the helm. It's so hard to stay consistent. UConn and Cuse can easily turn into Texas or Maryland. Have some big name coaches, some future pros but never have it amount to championships.

[bigeastbumrush]

Welp...the Big East Commish says he won't allow Cuse & Pitt to leave for the required 27 month period. This translates to the 2014 season.

At this point, both teams disgust me.

I'd be a hard *** and not give them fan seats in the BE tourney

It'll be really ugly if either Cuse or Pitt wins the conference tourney in the next 3 years which is very possible.

[Cusefan]

Quote: Originally Posted by bigeastbumrush

Welp...the Big East Commish says he won't allow Cuse & Pitt to leave for the required 27 month period. This translates to the 2014 season. At this point, both teams disgust me. I'd be a hard *** and not give them fan seats in the BE tourney It'll be really ugly if either Cuse or Pitt wins the conference tourney in the next 3 years which is very possible.

the big east was a sinking ship, if it wasnt cuse and pitt to defect, it was going to be UCONN and RU. Lets remember, there were multiple schools trying to get into the ACC, no one is innocent.