This whole "SIMULATION " thing(gray area)

[JayhawkerStL]

Also, the only definition that matters is the one the NFL, NFLPA, EA, and 2K paid a ton of money to lawyers to negotiate.

I get that it is annoying that we didn’t actually know any specifics about what 2K agreed to, and what they actually plan, out side of the vague press release about EA being the sole publisher of a NFL simulation game.

But filling that void with conspiratorial speculation about how 2K could make a game they clearly can’t is really sad. It’s all set up to create unrealistic expectations for a game no one knows the name of, what it will look like, play like, or even cost.

Somehow, when the game releases, and if it fail to meet the expectations of those that know nothing, it justifies the next round in this discussion.

Right now, no 2K game exists. If the one they release is not something you want, not a single thing will have changed. People still won’t have a 2K game to play. But because of all this nonsense, people are going to be mad that something that was never going to exist does, in fact, not exist.

It’s the difference between following the news, because you are interested in what they do, and following it so you can hold them responsible. Every single gamer that thinks devs need pressure from fans is toxic AF.

[TarHeelPhenom]

A few years back, when I was getting into the Out of the Park baseball series, I went over to their forum. They actually had a thread dedicated to debating what was considered sim and what wasn't. To the hardcore PC gamer, they believe that any game where user input(button mashing, joystick control etc.) determines the outcome on the field/court/track is not a real simulation. They said that MLB The Show was not simulation, but arcade based on that and OOTP baseball was a true simulation. That was the first time I had ever heard that. I always thought simulation was simply a virtual game replicating real life sport and personally still do. It was an interesting read to say the least.

[JayhawkerStL]

Quote: Originally Posted by TarHeelPhenom

A few years back, when I was getting into the Out of the Park baseball series, I went over to their forum. They actually had a thread dedicated to debating what was considered sim and what wasn't. To the hardcore PC gamer, they believe that any game where user input(button mashing, joystick control etc.) determines the outcome on the field/court/track is not a real simulation. They said that MLB The Show was not simulation, but arcade based on that and OOTP baseball was a true simulation. That was the first time I had ever heard that. I always thought simulation was simply a virtual game replicating real life sport and personally still do. It was an interesting read to say the least.

That’s how I’ve always felt. When FPS Football Pro finally died, and interest leagues waned, I bought a Dreamcast and accepted that sim sports was too niche, and I would just enjoy console sports for what they are.

You could hook up a controller to your PC and play FootballPro, but I know literally no one that ever did that. This was about calling plays, building game plans, and roster building.

I ran a league for several years, and played our games live, head to head, but I was just playcalling.

The best league I was in required us to turn in our game plans each week, and the commish ran the files every Sunday night. We used a third party app that read the play by play text and produced a simple scorebug, so you could watch it as the game played. Better yet, he could run four games at a time, and we used ICQ to chat as we watched everyone’s results.

That same app would allow my league to watch a game others played, too.

Seriously, we could not understand why the kids wanted to ruin their sports games with controllers.

I never considered 2K sim, but I loved playing it, and appreciated its lifeline production. But there was nothing sim about any of the 2K football games.

Of course, none of that has anything to do with the definition of NFL simulation as it pertains to the contract 2K abides by.

[tsbmolina]

Could non-sim be as simple as 5 min quarters with exaggerated player abilities to get inflated stats in that short period of time?

[kehlis]

Quote: Originally Posted by tsbmolina

Could non-sim be as simple as 5 min quarters with exaggerated player abilities to get inflated stats in that short period of time?

I don't think something that Madden does just fine at doing themselves as their simulation would pass for 2K.

[tsbmolina]

Quote: Originally Posted by kehlis

I don't think something that Madden does just fine at doing themselves as their simulation would pass for 2K.

In other words are you saying that Madden is not simulation? I would agree if that's the case.

[kehlis]

Quote: Originally Posted by tsbmolina

In other words are you saying that Madden is not simulation? I would agree if that's the case.

Yes/no. What I'm saying is that your proposal can already be accomplished in Madden.

Madden is considered to be a simulation (our opinion is irrelevant). So recreating something Madden already can accomplish would not be something I could see being allowed to be done.

[tsbmolina]

Quote: Originally Posted by kehlis

Yes/no. What I'm saying is that your proposal can already be accomplished in Madden. Madden is considered to be a simulation (our opinion is irrelevant). So recreating something Madden already can accomplish would not be something I could see being allowed to be done.

What is left and would it be worth 2K's investment in the expensive NFL and NFLPA license if there are strict limitations which basically doesn't allow for much of anything from what you are saying.