The real reason the NFL wants competing NFL titles & why NFL 2K will go sim in 2022.

[JayhawkerStL]

Quote: Originally Posted by ForUntoOblivionSoar∞

What? Madden now has super heroes and wastes valuable resources on designing and updating a micro-transaction mode that has nothing to do with the NFL.

I played Madden 06, and it was crap. Yet Madden fans keep holding it and 12 up as examples of when Madden was great.

It always feels like all of this is born way more out of EA hate than a rational memory of 2K5 and 2K8, games I loved. But 2K is the game I started playing when a real sim football game, Front Page Sports FBPro, released FBPro 99, a game so bad it had to be recalled, and ended up killing the franchise.

2K is what I settled for. It wasn’t sim. It designed for kids, had terrible sim results, and ridiculously bad DB play. But it was fun H2H and I loved how 2K5 allowed you to download profiles of the teams you were going to play based on the plays your opponent used in past games, which made prepping for live games fun.

I am pretty excited to play whatever 2K releases. But some of these takes are cringe worthy. They come from the same types of folks that are responsible for there now just being one game per sport among basketball, hockey, and baseball.

The “winning” games were considered great, until their competitors were canceled. Suddenly, it became clear that sports gamers can only consider a game great if they have another to compare it to. The hate for NHL popped up quick, because EA. But now, the hate for 2K basketball and The Show is building. Without another game to rag on, they turn on the only game left, picking at its flaws, blowing small things out of proportion.

Sports gamers, by and large, seem incapable of just not playing a game they don’t like. They have to actually mock people that play and enjoy the game. It’s pathetic, to be honest.

[moTIGS]

Quote: Originally Posted by ForUntoOblivionSoar∞

What? Madden now has super heroes and wastes valuable resources on designing and updating a micro-transaction mode that has nothing to do with the NFL.

I have no problem with a few superheroes.

Barry Sanders was a super hero. Bo Jackson was. Jerry Rice was. Calvin Johnson was. Several others were NFL versions of super heroes.

I hadn't played Madden in years until I got 20 after playing fairly religiously for a decade starting with 1999 and getting into football gaming with 93/94 on Genesis, and superstars/x-factors are one of my favorite parts of the game. They create players who truly feel special.

They need continued work to balance them, but overall, they strike me as an excellent addition that make things more fun.

If/when 2K starts producing a sim game to truly compete with Madden, I hope they also find a way to create top players who feel special.

[Kanobi]

Quote: Originally Posted by moTIGS

If/when 2K starts producing a sim game to truly compete with Madden, I hope they also find a way to create top players who feel special.

They achieved that in All Pro Football 2k8 with the abilities and the tier (gold, silver and bronze) system.

King Javo's APF Editor further revealed just how deep and versatile the system is in terms of making each player unique. You can literally make a player play exactly like his real-life counterpart with the tools APF's system provides.

Assuming the same developer, Visual Concepts, releases an NFL2k...I would expect them to achieve that same level of player uniqueness again with some obvious upgrades to modernize and deepen the abilities and attibutes system.

In fact, I would say such a system isnt entirely off the board for the non-sim title(s) they have planned.

[illwill10]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kanobi

They achieved that in All Pro Football 2k8 with the abilities and the tier (gold, silver and bronze) system. King Javo's APF Editor further revealed just how deep and versatile the system is in terms of making each player unique. You can literally make a player play exactly like his real-life counterpart with the tools APF's system provides. Assuming the same developer, Visual Concepts, releases an NFL2k...I would expect them to achieve that same level of player uniqueness again with some obvious upgrades to modernize and deepen the abilities and attibutes system. In fact, I would say such a system isnt entirely off the board for the non-sim title(s) they have planned.

I agree. The abilities and tiers made had an huge positive impact on gameplay. It never felt overpowered like how Abilities are in Madden. Madden feels like superpowers. Whereas in APF, abilities felt like a skill that other players didn't have. You didn't need a team full of golds to be a great team. You just needed to know how you wanted to construct a team and have parts mesh. Gold's stood out, but Silver and Bronze players were no slouches. I can always find a Silver CB like Lem Barney to cover #1 WRs or a Bronze DL like Dexter Manley to rush the passer. With Madden, speed has always been King. I never had to think twice about playing the Patriots twice in Madden. In APF, I had teams that might had teams with just 1 Speed Burner and that player was usually a LB. You don't need speed to be dominant. Just give me a WR with Route God and Soft Hands or a DB with Coverage Specialist and Closing Speed. Try to cover Jerry Rice with a Bronze or Generic CB and see him take over. A Gold CB vs. Jerry Rice is a even battle. I had games where I shut him down and games where he went off. I doubled him and he would still create separation without Speed Burner because of how effective Gold Route God was. But it didn't feel cheesy at all. Gold Route God route running was so smooth and generic WRs couldn't separate. But not all generic players were liabilities. I always had a generic DB that would get beat against star Was, but overall solid in coverage and make 1-2 key plays a game. But playing with a Gold QB versus is a huge difference. If you have a QB with Rocket Arm, Laser Accuracy, and Quick Release, you can sit and make every throw. I had my star QB get injured and had to play backup generic for a couple games. I had to completely adjust passing game.
I enjoyed King Javo editor. Made a big difference. If I had time to play, I would have bought that latest version. I used the free version and still makes a big difference when I played last year. I still debate on buying editor, but I don't have time to really sit and play games at current time.

I would like them to build off of APF gameplay engine. But I don't know if that is reasonable since the 2k8 game engine since that was the 2k5 engine just upgraded. EA and 2k took different routes when it came to the 6th to 7th generation transition. EA pretty much stripped everything down and built from the ground up(still recovering from that since some gameplay issues are still present). 2k, outside of graphics, built on gameplay from 6th gen. I just don't know if they could build off a 6th gen gameplay engine for the 9th gen consoles. But I do see them taking a lot of inspiration from that APF engine.
Unless there are hard restrictions on what they can do with a non-simulation, I do believe that type of system is possible. It could be a situation where they can't have 11-on-11 or have to be over-the-top arcade(Playground/Street). But if they aren't forced to do that, then they could still build a sim-style system, they would just have to present it in non-simulation way. Whose to say if the Star Tier system with abilities can't be considered non-simulation. They could argue that not using a traditional numbered rating system, as a reason it isn't simulation. I never cared for numbered system just because most sports games don't good job of differentiating closely rated players. In Madden, OVR didn't really even matter. Ratings do. But even then they either tie in animations to a range of ratings or increase probability of animation success. But I do feel like there could be loopholes or ways around to build a sim-like gameplay engine. Especially since they might have a chance at the simulation license, I think they would like a chance to transition quickly to a full simulation game. Madden has been transitioning to casual friendly/Arcade gameplay the past generation. Their "simulation" gameplay setting is hardly simulation

[tuckermaine]

So we have to wait till 2022 for a 2k simulation...you think....that means two more “Kiddie” games from Madden..arrgghh!!!!!

[illwill10]

Quote: Originally Posted by tuckermaine

So we have to wait till 2022 for a 2k simulation...you think....that means two more “Kiddie” games from Madden..arrgghh!!!!!

That's if the NFL is truly willing to open up the simulation license. At worse, this could be a situation where NFL and 2k are just looking to bring in more revenue. But I feel the timing of this is what brings up questions. If the non-simulation license has been up for grabs for years, then why wait now right before Madden's exclusive deal is almost up? Or why not just wait for the exclusive license to open up for bidding? One could say that this is NFL saying 2k has to prove it's self first. But in theory, 2k would have to really come out the gates swinging on whatever they release. The initial success of 2k Football would be paramount in what NFL decides. This is a situation where either NFL already has a decision made up(whether to open up license) or rely on initial sales. I'm leaning more towards the former but initial sales would confirm decision. I feel that NFL already knows what it wants to do. Either they want to open up license and good initial sales would only help confirm it. Or they are comfortable with Madden as exclusive simulation game and just want 2k as a way to bring in more revenue. But then if 2k has a feeling it could get the simulation license by end of 2021 season, do they build a non-simulation game that can be easily transitioned to a simulation game? I do feel they could want to have a simulation by 2022 if possible. But only possible if they already have a game engine in place for a simulation game. The non-simulation license is multiple games for multiple years. So even if they get simulation license, still would be basically 3 football games they are producing. The sim game, non-sim, and most likely mobile game.

The best case is that Madden really steps it up now. Hopefully Madden sees it as competition and rises to occasion. Since start of 7th generation, Madden has had tendency to re-invent the wheel and strip everything down. Madden 06 when they did a full overhaul to next gen and took years to recover. Then in Madden 13 when they stripped down game modes for Connected Franchise. Madden is in need of a positive overhaul in gameplay and game modes.

[xxvii]

I'm stuck playing madden 17 lol, but a new 2k would be dope for sure. It would be cool for a Berman reunion for halftime shows

[asantead22]

Quote: Originally Posted by moTIGS

I have no problem with a few superheroes. Barry Sanders was a super hero. Bo Jackson was. Jerry Rice was. Calvin Johnson was. Several others were NFL versions of super heroes. I hadn't played Madden in years until I got 20 after playing fairly religiously for a decade starting with 1999 and getting into football gaming with 93/94 on Genesis, and superstars/x-factors are one of my favorite parts of the game. They create players who truly feel special. They need continued work to balance them, but overall, they strike me as an excellent addition that make things more fun. If/when 2K starts producing a sim game to truly compete with Madden, I hope they also find a way to create top players who feel special.

The bottom line is competition! I do not believe the best way to initiate this is with an arcade game! EA has screwed its fan base for 15 yrs! Madden has not taken huge steps over 2k5! In fact, 2k5 is still considered a better overall game than any version of Madden!
The problem with the Madden series has been the lack of EA listening to its fan base.
The Madde development team and the executive board puts in what they want instead of what the fans want!
An example would be the halftime show, Madden's halftime is pathetic compared to 2k5! Something as simple as the halftime show! Madden can not seem to get a damn halftime right!
2k basketball gets it! Although their gameplay has suffered recently, other areas such as Classic teams, AllTime Teams, my park,etc... are all there.EA has taken out things that attracted a vast amount of consumers to the game.
Some of us would like to pick it up and use favorite teams and players from the past against others, however unless you use Madden Ultimate you can't!
I feel with direct sim vs sim ( Ali vs Frazier) is the only way to do it! I feel having Ali (2k) box with a hand tied behind his back against Frazier( EA) is an unfair fight, but the industry needs it! The football genre has suffered too much from Don King (EA) enough!!! Bring back true competition instead of this circus match!



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