2021 Transaction Thread

[ggsimmonds]

Quote: Originally Posted by slickdtc

Is he worth more? He seems to have been a product of volume. He’s good at what he does, and that’s very useful to a team trying to fill that need, but he’s not anywhere close to the class of Kelce, Kittle, or Waller. Those guys are matchup nightmares, Ertz seems like a standard type who is an expert on short routes and bodying out defenders then falling down. A 5th and a player for a decent TE seems about the going rate. Seems like only QB’s can fetch high picks these days or catching a team overpaying or desperate for an upgrade. The Cards didn’t want to part with Jordan Hicks? He’s gotta be better than the scrubs they’re running out there every week.

Definitely no where near the top TEs in the league, but theres another value tier between them and 5th and 6th round guys.
Ravens got a 2nd for Hurst. Granted there is an age difference.

I would've penciled his value at a 4th so its not that far off the mark

[slickdtc]

That would fall in to the overpay category, no? Hurst has never lived up to his first round draft status, and the Falcons immediately drafted Kyle Pitts after a year with Hurst. Useful TE, but just not quite what you want for what they (Ravens and Falcons) invested in him.

Ertz is not going to get better, though in a new offense and with less focus I can see him being more efficient. No disrespect to Ertz earlier. But it’s always felt like he was on the cusp of taking the next step and he never dominated the same way as other top TE’s. But he did dominate his areas of specialty and that’s worth a ton. Just not as much as the Eagles and fans who have watched him probably thought because the trade value system is hard to get a read on unless you play a few specific positions or another team overvalues a position.

[ggsimmonds]

Oh it was definitely an overpay.

inkcil is a Eagles fan. You want your team to "win" the trade and in this case, the Eagles definitely didn't.
An unbiased observer may see Ertz and think a 5th/6th is fair, but if you're a fan of the team you don't want fair value, you want to get back maximum value.

I could see why someone may hope for more from Ertz. Nothing crazy like anything involving 1sts or 2nds, but maybe a 4th and that cornerback.

Ertz's value for the Eagles is low. A pass catching TE on a poor offense doesn't move the needle much.
But his value for the Cardinals should be higher. TEs are great complimentary pieces but not foundational pieces.

Almost everyone says this is a great trade...for Arizona. No one is saying its great for the Eagles.

Also, this:
https://www.espn.com/blog/philadelph...to-julio-jones

"This isn't a guy in the twilight of his career. He's a guy still in his prime. A year ago at this time, everyone was talking about where he ranked with the top tight ends in the league," Roseman said in early May. "So we feel really good about the kind of player he is and we have to do what's best for our team as well, and again we have a lot of respect for him and continue to remain a member of the Philadelphia Eagles. If something changes, we'll update you guys."
The expectation remains Ertz will be off the team eventually, but we might not be at the end of the road quite yet as Philadelphia looks for something better than a low Day 3 pick.

Article states they had offers last offseason but the Eagles held out for better offers. You don't hold out for a 5th and a 6th.

[illwill10]

Quote: Originally Posted by ggsimmonds

Oh it was definitely an overpay. inkcil is a Eagles fan. You want your team to "win" the trade and in this case, the Eagles definitely didn't. An unbiased observer may see Ertz and think a 5th/6th is fair, but if you're a fan of the team you don't want fair value, you want to get back maximum value. I could see why someone may hope for more from Ertz. Nothing crazy like anything involving 1sts or 2nds, but maybe a 4th and that cornerback. Ertz's value for the Eagles is low. A pass catching TE on a poor offense doesn't move the needle much. But his value for the Cardinals should be higher. TEs are great complimentary pieces but not foundational pieces. Almost everyone says this is a great trade...for Arizona. No one is saying its great for the Eagles. Also, this: https://www.espn.com/blog/philadelph...to-julio-jones "This isn't a guy in the twilight of his career. He's a guy still in his prime. A year ago at this time, everyone was talking about where he ranked with the top tight ends in the league," Roseman said in early May. "So we feel really good about the kind of player he is and we have to do what's best for our team as well, and again we have a lot of respect for him and continue to remain a member of the Philadelphia Eagles. If something changes, we'll update you guys." The expectation remains Ertz will be off the team eventually, but we might not be at the end of the road quite yet as Philadelphia looks for something better than a low Day 3 pick. Article states they had offers last offseason but the Eagles held out for better offers. You don't hold out for a 5th and a 6th.

As an Eagles fan also, you don't hold out this long for a 5th and a 6th. I get that the Maxx Williams injury was a major factor, but I'm sure there will similar offers in the offseason. They should have made a trade before the regular season because his value wasn't going to increase in season(and it didn't). They were hoping for a Sam Bradford-Bridgewater situation.

I like the deal for the Eagles just from the standpoint that they should be able to fully feature Goddert now. He's going to get paid and won't be a discount. So, they should at least see him as the TE1 for a couple weeks. Plus with them running a full time Shotgun/Spread/College offense, you need less 12 personnel.

[ggsimmonds]

Quote: Originally Posted by illwill10

As an Eagles fan also, you don't hold out this long for a 5th and a 6th. I get that the Maxx Williams injury was a major factor, but I'm sure there will similar offers in the offseason. They should have made a trade before the regular season because his value wasn't going to increase in season(and it didn't). They were hoping for a Sam Bradford-Bridgewater situation. I like the deal for the Eagles just from the standpoint that they should be able to fully feature Goddert now. He's going to get paid and won't be a discount. So, they should at least see him as the TE1 for a couple weeks. Plus with them running a full time Shotgun/Spread/College offense, you need less 12 personnel.

Do you like it because you view it as addition by subtraction and that the Eagles are better now, or because of developmental reasons?

[illwill10]

Quote: Originally Posted by ggsimmonds

Do you like it because you view it as addition by subtraction and that the Eagles are better now, or because of developmental reasons?

Yes, lol

They weren't actually running a lot of 12. Most of the time Goddert and Ertz were splitting time. When they were 12, Goddert was the in line blocker because Ertz isn't as physical. Also good for developmental reasons as for it benefits the younger WRs. When your best 2 receivers are you're top 2 TEs, it forces you into 12 more. This year is all about development for the young WRs. It would help if Sirriani did more to more to put WRs in position to succeed. Like I would use Reagor in a Deebo Samuels role. The offense puts too much on Hurts, but at the same time it's like they don't trust him to run a NFL offense.

Sirrani said in last presser that they know the Pass--Run ratio has been off and that he doesn't want it to exceed 70-30. I thought they would be more of a running team. It should be 60-40 pass max. I'm always in favor of Winning the T.O.P battle, the Turnover battle, and limiting big plays defensively. Outside of LB, the defense isn't bad. It's just on the field too much. Eagles O feels like a Big 12 Offense

[slickdtc]

Haha, I’m basically half an Eagles fan myself being from the area. I think the Birds overvalued him in the same tier as Kelce, Waller. He has put up those numbers — in a different offense, under a different HC, with a different QB. They held out for a chance to see if Jalen would have the same chemistry that Wentz did and they don’t, even though Jalen is more of a short - intermediate passer and that should be the sweet spot. Also, they had 6 games together. And it’s hard to put up 116 receptions no matter what. They wanted the early returns to justify what they valued him at, and it went the other way.

Roseman is a lot of things but he knows the cap and how to get max draft capital, so I’m sure this was the best they were going to get. Every day it would become less. This was probably the minimum they’d accept for him before it made more sense to let him ride it out in Philly.

[ggsimmonds]

Quote: Originally Posted by slickdtc

Haha, I’m basically half an Eagles fan myself being from the area. I think the Birds overvalued him in the same tier as Kelce, Waller. He has put up those numbers — in a different offense, under a different HC, with a different QB. They held out for a chance to see if Jalen would have the same chemistry that Wentz did and they don’t, even though Jalen is more of a short - intermediate passer and that should be the sweet spot. Also, they had 6 games together. And it’s hard to put up 116 receptions no matter what. They wanted the early returns to justify what they valued him at, and it went the other way. Roseman is a lot of things but he knows the cap and how to get max draft capital, so I’m sure this was the best they were going to get. Every day it would become less. This was probably the minimum they’d accept for him before it made more sense to let him ride it out in Philly.

I suspect you may be right. They could have gotten more this past offseason if their expectations were more reasonable, but I wouldn't be surprised if their asking price was far too high and in the end they had to face a realization that this is the best offer they will get, take it or leave it.

They gambled and lost, but the injury to Maxx still allowed them to get some decent value.