in nba history, who has been the hardest player to stop?

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Quote: Originally Posted by wwharton

The last two posts sum it up, but I also don't know if people realize that you can "chin" the ball with your elbows parallel. If you pivot in this position it is not an offensive foul. There's a fine line here but it's clouded because the average player either has good position when they pivot, causing the elbow to go around the defender's body, shielding you... or the defender had position and trying to pivot just won't work (in which case, swinging the elbow is an obvious foul). Shaq was so big and strong that he literally could pivot a defender out of the way making it harder to tell the difference between an elbow swing and a proper pivot bc they both resulted in the same outcome. Add the insane number of fouls he took in without a call and it only made sense to give him the benefit of the doubt in many of those situations too.

Good point, and made me chuckle a little remembering Shaq just basically bullying people down low.

[choadler]

Quote: Originally Posted by z4ckdabeast

Uhh, Shaq got fouled on pretty much every play, bro.

Uhh, He pretty much ran over people on every play bro.

[wwharton]

Quote: Originally Posted by choadler

Uhh, He pretty much ran over people on every play bro.

Was going to just ignore this until I realized you made the original post that I and the other 2 replied to. So my question is, how is this response contributing to the conversation? This is the message board equivalent to "I know you are but what am I?"

[Sarah]

Quote: Originally Posted by choadler

The thing about Shaq is the NBA basically allowed Shaq to commit offensive fouls at an alarming rate. Guys would stand there and he would basically run over them and they would either call a foul on them or a travel on Shaq. He would turn into them with his elbow, make contact with their face and they would get a foul called on them. If they called basketball games correctly, Shaq would have fouled out of nearly every game.

Shaq played in 2 different eras. In the 90's the NBA was more physical then, and there was a good number of big men in there that can challenge Shaq in the low post. Somewhere in early 2000, I think the NBA change the rules defensively and somehow eventually became contact sensitive. Also, in the early 2000, not too many big men can challenge Shaq (compared to the 90s), and somehow he became a factor why the physical aspect of the game was change (if I remember correctly, Cuban is one of the owners who call for the change).

The way I see it, if Shaq started his career in this contact sensitive NBA, then you are right. He should be called foul on every low post offensive play of his. But in the 90s, hard fouls (equivalent to flagrant fouls today), and plowing defenders out of the way is almost normal.

[z4ckdabeast]

Quote: Originally Posted by choadler

Uhh, He pretty much ran over people on every play bro.

Call his physical domination in the post whatever you want, but the fact is that he got fouled every time he touched the ball.

[24]

In Terms of the overall package i would have to say Magic Johnson due to his ability to play every single position on the floor. He was dominant no matter where you put him and if AIDS didn't cut his career short i can only imagine what his stats would look like and how different the 90's would have been.

[bakan723]

Quote: Originally Posted by choadler

The thing about Shaq is the NBA basically allowed Shaq to commit offensive fouls at an alarming rate. Guys would stand there and he would basically run over them and they would either call a foul on them or a travel on Shaq. He would turn into them with his elbow, make contact with their face and they would get a foul called on them. If they called basketball games correctly, Shaq would have fouled out of nearly every game.

I agree. I think Shaq got away with offensive fouls all the time.

But when other players did that same pivot move with they're elbows sticking out they would get called on it all the time. So the consistency wasn't there in the refereeing, as Shaq was getting the superstar treatment in regard to this move.

[wwharton]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sarah

Shaq played in 2 different eras. In the 90's the NBA was more physical then, and there was a good number of big men in there that can challenge Shaq in the low post. Somewhere in early 2000, I think the NBA change the rules defensively and somehow eventually became contact sensitive. Also, in the early 2000, not too many big men can challenge Shaq (compared to the 90s), and somehow he became a factor why the physical aspect of the game was change (if I remember correctly, Cuban is one of the owners who call for the change). The way I see it, if Shaq started his career in this contact sensitive NBA, then you are right. He should be called foul on every low post offensive play of his. But in the 90s, hard fouls (equivalent to flagrant fouls today), and plowing defenders out of the way is almost normal.

Two things were put in place. Zone defense was definitely a result of Shaq. The 3 second back down rule I think was part Shaq but more guys like Barkley and Mark Jackson.