The Green Release reign is dangerous

[FixEverything2k]

After shooting 60% from the field and 59% from three for yet another half I decided I’d put the shooting success sliders to 0. I put timing impact at 30, and at first tried coverage impact at 30, then at 75.

I still continued to green 3’s at a high rate. I thought to myself, “why am I still scoring even though the 3 point success slider is at 0?” Then I realized: the shot timing mechanic overrides any logic that the game has when it comes to shooting. I turned the timing impact slider to 0 and then the success slider mattered.

Problem is other users feel like this takes too much control out of their shot timing, which should still be a factor.

The Green Release Rule is tyrannical

By making it so I can “perfectly time” a release, and that meaning it will go in 100% of the time, the game is not able to recognize that a slider that is supposed to determine the success of a shot, is trying to impact the success of the shot.

I don’t see how this mechanic wouldn’t be causing a nightmare for 2k to balance or create around.

What are some alternatives to absolute 100% green releases that you can think of?

The community is used to it now, but that shouldn’t dictate whether or not it should be taken out of the game if it would mean being able to better balance things or make badges and attributes mean more. I’m out here greening 3’s with Anthony Davis and Draymond

[jk31]

I am proposing this for a few years now. We basically have 2 options:

1. This is how shooting was prior to NBA 2k17 (or was it 2k16?):
Green releases do not go in at 100 % but instead just maximize your shooting percentage in correlation with your shooting rating and shot quality. The more off you are from the perfect release point, the worse the percentage that determines if you make the shot gets.

2. This is how it was from 2k17 to ~2k21:
Green releases go in at 100 % but are very very rare. Most of the times someone good at timing the shot will get a slightly early/late release which still goes in at a good clip )and according to your rating and shot quality).


Right now the whole balance of the game is overthrown by way too easy shooting. When shooting threes is more efficient than open 1:0 layups, because they yield more than 2 points per shot attempt, then the resulting game doesnt resemble basketball and most tactics dont apply anymore. Especially as if someone is good enough at timing than basically everyone can be a shooter. We had guys running 3 pt plays for a Dyson Daniels with below 70 3pt rating and scoring with that at a consistent clip. I shouldnt have to worry about guarding a player with that ratings at the 3 pt line.

[shaqfu9]

Completely agree with both of you. Last year I had a really good time on PNO. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdLZ45ZcYug
But as a sim player, I didn't like how little impact ratings had in shooting %.

I remember a game vs the '96 Bulls. The guy was spamming post spin moves with Jordan and Pippen so I decided to double off of Rodman, who had like a 50 3pt rating. Well, he greened two straight 3s in the last minute and finished with 3/4 3pt. I lost the game.

User timing should be a factor, but ratings and shot quality should be important as well.

Basketball is about creating quality shots for players with different scoring abilities. A shot that might be high quality for Jokic it might not be for Curry, or viceversa.

Greening being so easy takes the strategic aspect out of the game.

[The 24th Letter]

Quote: Originally Posted by shaqfu9

Completely agree with both of you. Last year I had a really good time on PNO..

Probably because 2K operated moreso under jk’s second suggestion. Only perfect releases went in. There was less room for error. This is no longer the case.

It was still on the easier side since H2H games hover around the All Star difficulty…which I think is the main issue when it comes to head to head match ups. You put PNO on SS/HOF and there’s a lot more strategy involved. Let’s see how many 3’s Tony Allen is draining then. This is the case for most MyPlayer modes.

We tend to look at “Greens” as its own singular, separate entity.

“Greens” are simply an indication that you hit the correct frame within a window. This has always been the case, even before it was visible. The only difference before was that RNG was involved.

As for as online/ H2H, I’m ok with the system as is. It’s the difficulty that could use tweaking in my opinion.

As far as offline- I’ll always err on the side of keeping the game customizable for the user and not forcing anyone into a box. To quote a developer, Unrealistic tests will yield you realistic results. Lowering pass accuracy to 0 doesn’t mean all passes will be fumbled out of bounds. Lowering rebounding won’t cause every ball to hit the floor etc etc. It will be the same with shooting.

Maybe one day 2K will add a classic/RNG mode alongside RP% for those who don’t want to tweak anything.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[shaqfu9]

Quote: Originally Posted by The 24th Letter

Probably because 2K operated moreso under jk’s second suggestion. Only perfect releases went in. There was less room for error. This is no longer the case. It was still on the easier side since H2H games hover around the All Star difficulty…which I think is the main issue when it comes to head to head match ups. You put PNO on SS/HOF and there’s a lot more strategy involved. Let’s see how many 3’s Tony Allen is draining then. This is the case for most MyPlayer modes. We tend to look at “Greens” as its own singular, separate entity. “Greens” are simply an indication that you hit the correct frame within a window. This has always been the case, even before it was visible. The only difference before was that RNG was involved. As for as online/ H2H, I’m ok with the system as is. It’s the difficulty that could use tweaking in my opinion. As far as offline- I’ll always err on the side of keeping the game customizable for the user and not forcing anyone into a box. To quote a developer, Unrealistic tests will yield you realistic results. Lowering pass accuracy to 0 doesn’t mean all passes will be fumbled out of bounds. Lowering rebounding won’t cause every ball to hit the floor etc etc. It will be the same with shooting. Maybe one day 2K will add a classic/RNG mode alongside RP% for those who don’t want to tweak anything. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

To be honest, I'm ok with how it is right now. In HOF lightly contests are almost impossible to make, to the point I'm scared to shoot middies with KD and Booker.

I just think players below certain ratings shouldn't be able to green shots. In 2k18, there was a 'good release' timing, which meant that you timed the shot correctly but it didn't guarantee a green. I would like something similar to it.

[ILLSmak]

Quote: Originally Posted by The 24th Letter

Probably because 2K operated moreso under jk’s second suggestion. Only perfect releases went in. There was less room for error. This is no longer the case. It was still on the easier side since H2H games hover around the All Star difficulty…which I think is the main issue when it comes to head to head match ups. You put PNO on SS/HOF and there’s a lot more strategy involved. Let’s see how many 3’s Tony Allen is draining then. This is the case for most MyPlayer modes. We tend to look at “Greens” as its own singular, separate entity. “Greens” are simply an indication that you hit the correct frame within a window. This has always been the case, even before it was visible. The only difference before was that RNG was involved. As for as online/ H2H, I’m ok with the system as is. It’s the difficulty that could use tweaking in my opinion. As far as offline- I’ll always err on the side of keeping the game customizable for the user and not forcing anyone into a box. To quote a developer, Unrealistic tests will yield you realistic results. Lowering pass accuracy to 0 doesn’t mean all passes will be fumbled out of bounds. Lowering rebounding won’t cause every ball to hit the floor etc etc. It will be the same with shooting. Maybe one day 2K will add a classic/RNG mode alongside RP% for those who don’t want to tweak anything. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It sucks that their theory seems like release is something you have to 'master,' but it's just like putting a finishing touch on the play. The whole green thing made it so that contests had to matter more. Old Live 19 had greens, too, but you could make contests. Sure, people would score dumb amounts of points, and you could 'perfect release' against a contest, too, for a better chance to make it. Red contests are more offensive than greens.


I dunno if what you are saying is true though about greens, at least in old 2ks. You could wet up in Live. In 2k7 it seemed objectively better to shoot slightly late (iirc?) than perfect in practice. But, you still weren't making shots like they made now.


Green = make, but I legit can't say the same release = make in old games. There is a limitation on greens (for example: strangely, I can make fts with low FT% in 23 but sometimes if I get full bar green, I can miss it cuz of my rating. If I release slightly late, I never miss) that will make you miss when you got a perfect release, but I am not sure I'd bet if they set up 2klabs macros on those old games that people would be wetting shots.



Perfect release was a dud with most players, and iirc they had a release that was 'better' than perfect on both the way up and way down. It was kinda cool to be able to choose your shot release situationally. It still seemed closer to real FG%. There were some player's animations that were more money than others, too. It was all sorts of crazy.



TLDR: It was a little different. I think they started transitioning to that by the later 2ks. Even in 14 I felt pretty confident if I knew my shot, but those old 2ks, the ones I used to play h2h back in the day, like 2k7, 2k8... those were not like that, imo, and I liked that shot system. I hit some nice game winners vs defense, and it felt good.



I still remember having the Bobcats in a league w/ a PIP limit and putting 40 on someone with Adam Morrison loool.



-Smak

[Cowboyfan_19]

Well I still don't think it's fair that no-meter guys are green or miss, but guys who have shot meter on can still make slightly early/late shots.

And to your point, online Play suffers the absolute worst. There is literally ZERO reason to have a 3 rating above 70 in this game. Everything is predicated on how well you know any given players jumper. I had Drew Gooden from the 07 Cavs TORCH me from 3, just because the guy knew his jumper. I had Bol Bol TORCH me from 3, just because a guy knew his jumper. I'm over here trying to play smart & load the paint to stop Lebron & KD, but when these nobodies start turning into game 6 Klay, nah man, that's too much.

It's no wonder the meta is sacrificing shooting attributes for speed & defense. Why have a Ray Allen or Steph Curry or Peja Stojakovich, when you can have Michael Cooper & Joe Dumars & Shane Battier & Bruce Bowen? In 2k24, you don't sacrifice shooting at all, instead, you simply gain incredible defense using those guys I mentioned.

[jk31]

Quote: Originally Posted by The 24th Letter

Maybe one day 2K will add a classic/RNG mode alongside RP% for those who don’t want to tweak anything. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

THIS!

This would be the perfect solution. Just give us the option.