Some Perspective From a Comm. Day Attendee

[TheWatcher]

I'd just like to address something I've seen come up several times here...

There is nothing wrong with EA asking for consumer feedback, and any company that doesn't do that is depriving themselves of a priceless resource. I know from my own very extensive experience in the creative fields, that your personal perspective alone is not always enough. Someone within the team must've felt that the product was no longer as strong as it once was (and they were right) and the best people to find out why are the people playing the game on a regular basis.

Now when you get that opinion, it has to come from someone you respect and trust and can see an even level with. I think that's what EA is getting a lot of right now.

I'm not going to say that all of the improvements in the game are happening just because of the boards, but because we can opine on things as they happen it allows us to let the developer know how we as gamers would prefer its outcome to be. It's ultimately up to the developer to do or not do something with that information, but having that option is what's going to make the biggest difference with this franchise.

I read a comment that we CD guys only see things as negatives. I have no idea what that's supposed to mean and what point of reference this comes from. We have one faction saying we're all too positive now (lol), and another saying we're all too negative. Bottom line is that a lot of folks are simply confused and misinformed and are just making wild accusations.

Also--and I suppose that the people who feel this way are never going to change their opinion even though it's baseless...--but I have seen no change in how any CD folks are posting, except that we've seen more positives and because we're excited about those, we're talking about them. Again, I think it's absolute foolishness to push back on us for talking about the positives with excitement. If you have a problem with that, then you're a miserable ***** and simply have no desire to want Madden to be better. Why the hell are you here?

I'll be damned if my posting has suddenly changed because of community day, lol. Are you kidding? That's a joke, and it assumes you know my level of experience, or my level of integrity which you know of neither. It's just mouth running with zero knowledge. I really have to question the maturity level of some of the people making these accusations, because they seem really inexperienced in the world, and on top of that they have no concept of diplomacy or tact. Actually, I don't even question it... the immaturity is obvious.

To say I've suddenly become an apologist is just dumb, plus it's inaccurate because I've had a number of posts coming down hard on some things being done with Madden 10 since CD. That's no different than what I've always done when I felt the situation warranted that. But none of the people making the accusations want to acknowledge any of that. Actually reading those facts would require the loss of an idiotic concept. So they would rather hold on to a stupid and completely inaccurate idea of something that doesn't even exist, instead of seeing the truth.

[RGiles36]

Val,

I saw an apology & clarification from you earlier, but you must've said to hell with that at some point this morning LOL. I just wanted to say that I didn't employ multiple posts to argue my point; that all came from one post. I wasn't picking on that particular user (thus why I didn't mention his name) but rather discussing the content.

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

But if you're looking for a reason for what some may define as a change in attitude, I wanted to shed some light on that.

I quoted myself to display the original intent of this thread. Really, all I was attempting to say was that I recognize there has been a change in my attitude (more optimistic) and these are the reasons why. I wasn't trying to make it seem that I have an issue with the pessimists or that I'm selfishly concerned with the negativity. Neither of those are the case. But I wanted to explain why I may now come off as a bit bias when compared to my more antagonistic posts of the past .

Carry on (it's good discussion as long as it continues to be civil).

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pandemonium00

Thank you for typing almost verbatim what I have been thinking, Val. We still can't really give positive or negative feedback yet, as every time we do it's still an "early build," or the term "alpha build" thrown around all the time. When I see a play from snap to whistle blown, well then I can make an honest assessment. I'm just afraid of what kind of feedback this select group of people has given. So many Madden fans seem to have this tunnel vision about what a "simulated, true-to-life football experience" really is. I feel like the same animations beaten into your head over the last 4 years have warped your mind. The biggest example I can give is using Backbreaker, as it is constantly slandered here without reasoning. It looks better than any iteration of Madden thus far, [in their first year, mind you. How long has EA had to get the formula correct?] yet I see people constantly give only negative feedback, ridiculous reasoning; if any. Can you really tell me with a straight face any next gen animations look realistic thus far? That means this team will have to redo, or destroy and recreate nearly every previous animation, if this is truly to become a "sim" game. Sometimes Ian Cummings reminds me of Barack Obama.

If animations are the biggest reason why you want to own any football game, that great for you. However, animations isn't everyone's number 1 cup of tea for owning a football game. And just like I don't say shame on you for enjoying backbreaker at this time, people shouldn't be saying shame on me for not liking what I see this far.

We are all different.

[Valdarez]

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

This is not what you initially implied, Val. Of course we're down there to provide feedback. You more or less said we're down there teaching them the game of football, and I argued specifically that not to be the case. These guys know there stuff. But sheesh, it only helps to get more eyes on the product. I'm not a developer of any sort, but I have often heard about 'tunnel vision' or the inability to see things from multiple views. Why not get views from the outside? Again, CD is not a new thing. It's new that guys like us were chosen to go, but they're going to have CD whether the sim base is involved or not. As such, I'd be happy that anyone from OS had the opportunity to go given the last few Madden releases .

By game play, I meant basic football aspects (things they could easily map back to real football video footage), not playing the game itself (bad use of words on my part). Many of the examples I have heard from you guys were basic things though such as how a player gets off the line of scrimmage, how a pocket forms, or how the LBs start a play. (sorry if I can't put a name to who said what) To me, that's pretty basic stuff that they could easily acquire solid film footage on, and not the type of stuff you typically get tunnel vision on, so I don't understand why they need help in that area. With that said, if at the end of the day it makes the game better, then good. Whatever it takes to fix the game because I would much rather be enjoying a game of NFL football instead of talking on a forum about everything that's wrong with the game and what needs to be done to fix it.

To me, it just seems feel's like something's broken. I know enough about software development that it makes me scratch my head, but not enough about the gaming side of it to know whether it's truly good or bad. Bringing you down from a company perspective I think is smart (marketing points, customer interaction), however, if they truly need you guys to point out some of the basic aspects of the game of football (which was pretty much what my understanding was from your guys posts at the start of this conversation) then to me that's bad, because it means something is fundamentally broken with the team/organization.

I tried to read up on the CD stuff a little, and it sounds like it's historically been a media outlet. Even your guys visit was published on a blog and received media coverage all over the net. Whether you guys want to admit it or not, that's marketing at work, and for good or for bad, you are now another marketing channel. Every post you make as a CD attendee on the subject is free publicity, no matter how big, or small the audience. Look at how many views this thread alone has received (which IMHO doesn't even belong on the board, the mods have closed more relevant posts. This is the Madden board right? Not the CD attendee board? But then, what do I know... I've had more than one post that I thought was relevant closed now.)

Out of curiosity, why are you guys so hung up on me simply having a different view regarding the purpose of the event which is really all I have done? It doesn't make make my view right, it just makes it my view.

[Valdarez]

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

Val, I saw an apology & clarification from you earlier, but you must've said to hell with that at some point this morning LOL. I just wanted to say that I didn't employ multiple posts to argue my point; that all came from one post. I wasn't picking on that particular user (thus why I didn't mention his name) but rather discussing the content.

lol.. .yeah, I misread when I made the original post. These convo's are getting way too long man. I posted the apology, then waited a bit, and there was no reply back, and removed it later thinking it would just be confusing. Apology stands though. Misread on my part.

[Valdarez]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheWatcher

I'll be damned if my posting has suddenly changed because of community day, lol. Are you kidding? That's a joke, and it assumes you know my level of experience, or my level of integrity which you know of neither. It's just mouth running with zero knowledge. I really have to question the maturity level of some of the people making these accusations, because they seem really inexperienced in the world, and on top of that they have no concept of diplomacy or tact. Actually, I don't even question it... the immaturity is obvious

Hey Watcher... nice tact.

Sorry man, I couldn't resist.

[roadman]

It's all about the trust factor, folks. For the people that were here before CD, we got to know these folks pretty well with their constructive criticism. I feel deep down that EA choose the right people. If you don't agree, then you didn't know these folks prior to CD. I think it's a case of new people jumping on board from all the blogs and the 2k folks wondering about what is new with Madden10.

The new people will question and question the logistics of sending 8 people down to not just critique a game, but to have a feel for it. I don't really care if you play the darn thing over and over on NFL film 1,000 times, you will still miss some stuff that others wouldn't miss. We all have different eyes, wouldn't you agree?

Put yourself in the CD folks shoes. If you had new people questioning why this, why that, it's JUST a marketing ploy, how the hell would you feel? I would think anyone would defend themselves in that same situation. In addition, if you are a 2k series fan or just a Madden *****, you will take every opportunity to break down and question the reasons behind something that is already over a month old.

It's tradition. CD is a tradition like Christmas. It happens once per year and Ian took the plunge and decided to invite the harsh critics of the Madden series. Do you know how long it would take EA locally to find 8 harsh critics of the Madden series? You just can't advertise in the local rag or Orlando Sentinel: Looking for 8 of the harshest critics of the Madden series. Compare it to looking for a lead singer or lead guitarist for a local rock band. You have to audition hundreds and hundreds of people before you find the one that jives with your group.(in EA's case, it's to find people that aren't happy with the game. That's a waste of a lot of time and money. Why not pick someone you know through the net?

I feel sorry for these folks. Since they day they arrived back from CD, all they've heard is jealousy or nitpicking on why they were there. Who cares if they were wined and dined? Think about this. Do rock stars or movie stars invite 8 of their harshest critics to a caviar, steak and lobster fest? They don't pander to that crowd. Oh please, please, love my music since I've invited to the mansion and treated you like a queen or king. No, they keep on inviting the critics that love their work.

I've seen LBz, Kane, The Watcher and AJ criticize some parts of Madden they have already discussed in blogs. To say they are biased is ridiculous.

It's time to move on from this.

[TheWatcher]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

Hey Watcher... nice tact. Sorry man, I couldn't resist.