No Huddle Online

[DePounded]

Not sure if someone has started this thread so please excuse me for repeating it if someone has already done so. I'm wondering if anyone has an issue with the no huddle abuse that frequently occurs online. Since EA appears to be making an effort now to make defense better in Madden, I'm wondering what you guys think about some sort of system moving forward that penalizes ballers whose entire offense is no huddle. It could be something along the lines of players missing more blocks, dropping more passes, loss of acceleration for RBs, etc. Basically, if you start off running no huddle in the first quarter and continue at the same pace (i.e. every possession) all game, then by the second half, your players will begin to experience the effects described above. Thoughts?

[TTD71]

I have maintained for years that the best way to reign in the abuse of the no huddle offense is to make mistakes more prevalent in the form of increased penalties IF the team you're using is not an up-tempo, Chip Kelly type of team...

The Patriots have used a lot of no huddle and they also have BRady at QB, so because the team is largely built to run that kind of offense, I have less problem with it than say someone coming out with San Fran or Seattle (2 power run teams) and doing the same thing.

If your team is a ground-'n-pound type of offense, going no huddle outside of desperation time or the end of the half SHOULD cause your linemen to get winded, your receivers to get winded and if you insist on keeping them in the game anyway, it SHOULD impact their performance - more false starts (lost concentration is the first sign of fatigue), more holding calls (loss of good footwork and technique is a real hazard with tired linemen) and more inaccurate throws (QBs who do not normally run the no huddle attack are not usually 100% accurate when they have to run it...unless they're also a highly rated guy or a clutch performer).

These are the kind of added realism things that EA could have done for years - all of these things are already in the game code to one degree or another - penalties, fatigue, accuracy, etc. - the problem is that there has never been a push to accentuate them. The thinking appears to be that too many gamers would be turned off by the added realism of having your team that is not a no-huddle style team be unable to perform like the Eagles or Oregon or Baylor...

I hope to god that EA someday decides to really go whole-hog on realism in gameplay. There is a misconception that this would require a ton of new animations and new interactions, but that is to make it "look right" on the screen. If you start by making the results more realistic as the main point and THEN change the animations to match - accepting improved outcomes instead of waiting "perfect" execution....

Still waiting to see what '15 provides, but I know I will be disappointed in the execution of no huddle...

[MyxGoDxIsxGrEaTeR]

My experience with teams who constantly no huddle?

Fumble or key injury.

Resulting in them quitting.

I really don't have a problem with it. These players usually play with their emotions anyway, so you see their money plays early. Usually a modified RB screen or play that attacks the corners and seams at the same time.

[Big FN Deal]

Yeah OP, I started a thread about this last year http://www.operationsports.com/forum...real-time.html

The main point seems to be that there are far too many shortcuts in Madden, meaning not enough transition elements in place to add a realistic risk/reward to no huddle. Fatigue, penalties, players getting reset, etc representation are lacking which diminish the strategy of no huddle and while Madden focuses on representing the "fun" of it.

[TTD71]

Quote: Originally Posted by MyxGoDxIsxGrEaTeR

My experience with teams who constantly no huddle? Fumble or key injury. Resulting in them quitting. I really don't have a problem with it. These players usually play with their emotions anyway, so you see their money plays early. Usually a modified RB screen or play that attacks the corners and seams at the same time.

I don't think the focus is on whether or not these types of players can be beat (or even if they would finish the game in online or H2H matches)...I know there are a ton of options to "out-Madden" them or to simply beat them.

The point is to make the game itself play more "true-to-life" overall.

If you have Peyton Manning or Drew Brees at QB, then even if your team as a whole is not a no-huddle, up-tempo team, that quality QB could be the difference between being able to successfully run a 2 minute drill or no-huddle offense, where as if you are running with a back-up due to injury or a lower tier QB, you would not see the same results.

Madden is what it is...for decades now it has made its hay by allowing the user controlling the team to dictate the outcomes regardless of the ratings or the skills of the real life counterparts they are controlling. Its why a back-up QB is no real detriment to the team and why a user controlled player has absolutely nothing to fear from low "awareness" ratings...

Its also part of the game's DNA and I just cannot see how they would ever change it to a full-on simulation....BUT that doesn't mean the no huddle offense isn't a perfect opportunity to make more realistic results a higher priority than allowing the users to control the outcomes as much as they do! Slight changes to the game in this regard would have huge impact on the way the game plays, how people choose their teams and what emphasis that team selection would mean. I guarantee you that if the Seahawks or 49er's played more true to life (running the ball, controlling the clock and winning with strong defense) - instead of allowing them to be up-tempo, no-huddle, read-option, scrambling QB drills - that you would instantly see different team selections for H2H and online games...PLUS it would enhance the realism for the offline and CFM players by making the game more responsive to reality and ratings more of an influence on gameplay.

A skilled Madden player can take any team, run any style of play and beat pretty much any other less skilled (or less lucky) player in a H2H match up because of the amount of control the game allows the user controlled players to have. There is some strategy involved; but by and large, the reality is that players at a high H2H level simply use their own reflexes and knowledge of the game to influence the outcomes. The game is designed to allow this and always has been.

Think about it...
1) you start an offensive play as the QB, but you see the field from a god-camera / O-Coordinator's wet dream perspective; you can see the alignment of the secondary (AND HERE I AM IN WAIT AND SEE MODE WITH THE NEW DISGUISED COVERAGES FOR M15....I hope like hell that these work and are truly able to mask the coverages and force players to make reads after the snap instead of knowing exactly how a play is going to turn out BEFORE the snap ever happens)...

2) you snap the ball and have INSTANT feedback on coverages based on those pre-snap alignments AND the programmed movement of the safeties and linebackers into their coverages (the players do not vary in gait, coordination, agility or any other meaningful way here...which is why so many people seem to think Madden's animations are so bad...its NOT the actual movements, its the eerie similarity of movement for all players that too little accounts for size, bulk, ability, etc...)...again, I hope M15 has made real progress here, and the Zoomed cameras have always been a greater challenge to use (which is probably why I have enjoyed them so much in the past)...

3) you then have the ability to steer passes and lead receivers into impossible adjustments (taking a WR off their route and because the WR is tied to the ball/pass it gives you an insane advantage over the defense that is unnatural and unrealistic)...

4) you also have an advantage (in H2H games anyway) of being able to manually control the CATCH as well as the guided throw...

Taking all of the above, and adding a no-huddle offense that gives additional advantages to the offense is why Madden defense is really about waiting for your opponent to make a mistake more than anything else.

Given the fact that online players virtually NEVER punt...you have to do this on 4 consecutive plays in order to get one defensive stop. It is why Madden is nothing like football and its also why the changes that the programmers make to the appearance of the game never translate too well after the first 6-8 weeks of the game's lifespan.

So, what does all of this nonsense have to do with the no-huddle offense? Just further points out where EA has golden opportunities to change things in favor of realism, IF THEY WANT TO...but to do so would come at the cost of making Timmy Twelve Year-old angry that he can't abuse the no-huddle offense and hurry up tempo with the 49er's any more. If the game's implementation of the new hot routes works as intended, that will make things a little better...but if the players on the field do not matter, if the only real factor in success or failure on constant no-huddle is the user, then it won't discourage the use of unrealistic tactics and it won't force players to learn to use real football strategy to "win" (given that many of these kinds of players would quit anyway if you DID stop them, the real issue is MONEY....EA KNOWS these kinds of players would likely just not buy the game rather than learn how to realistically play it...this dev team seems aware of that reality too...but if the game sells even a little poorly, they are going to end up out on their *** and the suits will dial Madden back for another 5 years...)

[Skyboxer]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

Yeah OP, I started a thread about this last year http://www.operationsports.com/forum...real-time.html The main point seems to be that there are far too many shortcuts in Madden, meaning not enough transition elements in place to add a realistic risk/reward to no huddle. Fatigue, penalties, players getting reset, etc representation are lacking which diminish the strategy of no huddle and while Madden focuses on representing the "fun" of it.

Also adding in "blown plays" during not just no huddle but for players with low awareness , high fatigue etc..
ie.. RB going the wrong way, WR running wrong routes etc..

[TTD71]

Quote: Originally Posted by Skyboxer

Also adding in "blown plays" during not just no huddle but for players with low awareness , high fatigue etc.. ie.. RB going the wrong way, WR running wrong routes etc..

That's another great way to add realism to the no huddle AND to respect the ratings and abilities of the NFL players...making a rookie play like a rookie - having their awareness and recognition ratings start low and only raise with performance would be far better than just giving someone like Jadeveon Clowney a lower overall and slightly less realistic physical ratings to avoid having him come in as the best player in the game.

Imagine the difference in your play calling strategy if you knew that your stud LT was hurt and he had to be replaced by a rookie, lowly rated sub who was going to miss assignments, could not be trusted to go one-on-one without TE help and just might blow a play if you ran no huddle...THAT would give Madden a depth and replayability that would rival playing H2H - and it would make H2H go to another level completely!

[DePounded]

The crazy thing is I remember back in Madden 05 when running the no huddle excessively would result in a false start penalty. Suddenly people stopped running no huddle -- funny how that worked out. Of course, the cheesers would complain but ultimately it would make H2H games more enjoyable IMO. Some people didn't like the fair play setting back in Madden 05 because it actually forced you to punt the ball on 4th, etc., but it went a long time in terms of making online matches cleaner. And for those who wanted no restrictions, they could play on a hardcore setting. Not sure why EA hasn't brought this feature back (hopefully they will in the future), but this might be a good way to stop all of the cheap tactics online and still not alienate those who want to play that style of Madden.