Zone Defense Video in Slow Motion

[cgalligan]

They can "say" they have "improved" whatever they want but imo, from what I've seen so far, I don't see a difference from NCAA 11...

Here's my thing, I don't think the problem is in the actual execution of the Zone defenses, I think a bigger problem is the fact that every player on the filed gives away their defensive assignments PRESNAP... Anyone who plays this game as much as most of us do, will start to notice little things that give away the defense...

IE - In Cover 3, your SS or FS drops into the box, while the other saftey shifts to the center of the field... Giving away his "zone" as deep middle, and the other saftey is playing the Yellow Zone or Hook Zone...

Things like this need to be taken out of the game completely, as, in the NFL and NCAA you will rarely see teams shifting and giving away their defense PRESNAP... If anything, you will see them shifting into some type of "shell" in order to confuse the offense and make them think they are running something that they are not... This "shell" could be something like, coming out in a play that aligns your defenders in the tradition Cov 3 look (explained above) but, acutally, your defenders are playing a Cover 2 Zone, or Cover 2 man, or Some type of Combo Man/Zone Scheme... This is where I think Madden and NCAA hadicap the Defense...

One thing that I know for a fact is that All Pro Football 2k8 gave you the feature to come out in a "shell" so you didn't give away your defensive play... In that game, you also had to ability to call a "shell" play on offense, where you could choose your play, then chose which formation you want to come out of the huddle in... PRESNAP, your offense would shift into their correct play according to whatever you picked at the playcall screen...

This to me is really cool, as you see NFL and NCAA offenses shifting all the time before the snap...

[LiquorLogic]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kaiser Wilhelm

Never played defensive back (except in pick-up games) but I have done backwards running for track. I'm assuming they are the same. Stay on your toes, pump the arms, dont lean, or if you have to lean forward a bit, basically a backwards sprint. Am I correct? Anyways, I think people are asking for a little too much. Can they do better, I will bet they can. Where I disagree is where you all want it to be picture perfect. If zone works effectivly while not overpowering (like man mirror routes from '11) then I won't complain. If though, zone is ridiculously overpowered and can essentially cover the entire field, then I will have a problem. As for the gliding, I don't like looking at it, but because of the technology they are using, and that for some reason XBox 360 still exists I will accept it. Don't get me wrong though if this game plays well and dynasty gets some depth to it, then I will jump on the, pretty it up band wagon, after I jump on the, why does Army not have an authentic entrence band wagon!

As far as the backpedaling animation, I know they can do it better. The animation is better in NCAA 11. The actual zone coverage may not be better, in NCAA 11 than NCAA 12, but the backpedaling animation is. That's ridiculous !

[mtheory8]

Quote: Originally Posted by cgalligan

They can "say" they have "improved" whatever they want but imo, from what I've seen so far, I don't see a difference from NCAA 11... Here's my thing, I don't think the problem is in the actual execution of the Zone defenses, I think a bigger problem is the fact that every player on the filed gives away their defensive assignments PRESNAP... Anyone who plays this game as much as most of us do, will start to notice little things that give away the defense... IE - In Cover 3, your SS or FS drops into the box, while the other saftey shifts to the center of the field... Giving away his "zone" as deep middle, and the other saftey is playing the Yellow Zone or Hook Zone... Things like this need to be taken out of the game completely, as, in the NFL and NCAA you will rarely see teams shifting and giving away their defense PRESNAP... If anything, you will see them shifting into some type of "shell" in order to confuse the offense and make them think they are running something that they are not... This "shell" could be something like, coming out in a play that aligns your defenders in the tradition Cov 3 look (explained above) but, acutally, your defenders are playing a Cover 2 Zone, or Cover 2 man, or Some type of Combo Man/Zone Scheme... This is where I think Madden and NCAA hadicap the Defense... One thing that I know for a fact is that All Pro Football 2k8 gave you the feature to come out in a "shell" so you didn't give away your defensive play... In that game, you also had to ability to call a "shell" play on offense, where you could choose your play, then chose which formation you want to come out of the huddle in... PRESNAP, your offense would shift into their correct play according to whatever you picked at the playcall screen... This to me is really cool, as you see NFL and NCAA offenses shifting all the time before the snap...

cool idea for online play and even play vs AI

and sort of agree with your comment, the video looks... nice but its hard to guess how it will actually play. or what the algorithm is like for simulating zone defense...

[AttackAttack]

Quote: Originally Posted by poopoop

Is anyone really surprised that they would make players behave unrealistically to give the appearance of solid zone defense? We're talking about a game where excellent man coverage means mirroring routes, and CPU's calling a good game on D means they know your plays and pick their D based off them. Where the toughest difficulty level means the CPU players don't get smarter, they just get speed and strength boosts. This is pretty much standard.

Couldnt have said it better. EA wont ever get it right. Ive been playing 2k8 and i find myself saving every other play cause it looks real. Its just amazing. What i would do for EA to buy that engine.

[eyeamg0dly]

my problem with this video is that they really arent playing zone defense. anyone who has play football irl knows that you focus on the qb eyes and feel the receivers route. yes you will swivel your head and see where the receivers are, but your main focus is to jump the pass.

in the video they mirror the routes too much. its more like playing man defense on a leash and doesnt look natural. i wanna see more combo routes and overloaded formations design to break zone defenses. then we will see if this so called zone defense is actually fixed.

[ViLLiO]

One of my more recent concerns is the Michigan State LB at 1:20. Why does he even drop 15-20 yards into coverage? I'd like to know which defensive play was called exactly. Is that really his assignment?? Or is this just another case of the CPU AI "knowing" the route and eliminating it...

[ViLLiO]

TSS' new video really addresses a lot of your concerns...

[noplace]

Quote: Originally Posted by ViLLiO

TSS' new video really addresses a lot of your concerns...

Good vid & its a shame a 5 year old game is still ahead in terms of getting the fundamentals correct.

EA's developers are casual football fans. They have no real football IQ to replicate or simulate the real thing on the field. They learned everything from ”US” the open forums.

When it comes to the fundamentals they’re waaaaaay off. 2K was and still is years ahead of them in terms of game play. The problem is that EA is using the same engine & it’s impossible to get away from the flaws that have plagued this series without change. EA has done a good job visually and I know there intentions are good but they won’t get it right until they are forced to step it up by either competition or a change in the engine that will allow them to start over.