2014 Michigan Wolverines: Team 135

[Illustrator76]

Quote: Originally Posted by WaitTilNextYear

You must be new, lol. Our defense and the line is so much better than anything we've had since Mike Martin left it's not funny. Willie Henry, Beyer, Clark etc are legit. Remember not that long ago we had a converted O-Lineman as our #1 DT in Quinton Washington. See any year under Rod for a worse D-Line. Carr had some very mediocre units also--save for standout individuals like Brandon Graham and Mike Martin--after that beastly 2006 team.

I'm 37 years old. Been a Michigan fan all my life. You must be the one who is new. Michigan's Defensive Line is horrible, and I challenge you to prove otherwise. Michigan's DL hasn't been able to consistently rush the passer in YEARS, and they can't stop the run to save their lives. Homerism isn't going to hide the truth of the matter; For all of the recruiting Brady Hoke has done on the OL and DL, they have severely underperformed since he's been here. Point blank. Jake Ryan showed promise rushing the passer before blowing out his knee, and then Hoke (in a pure stroke of genius) decided to move him to MLB, and that has worked out awesome for Michigan's pass rush...oh wait...

Hoke needs to go. Period. He is a glorified position coach that is in way over his head.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Quote: Originally Posted by Illustrator76

I'm 37 years old. Been a Michigan fan all my life. You must be the one who is new. Michigan's Defensive Line is horrible, and I challenge you to prove otherwise. Michigan's DL hasn't been able to consistently rush the passer in YEARS, and they can't stop the run to save their lives. Homerism isn't going to hide the truth of the matter; For all of the recruiting Brady Hoke has done on the OL and DL, they have severely underperformed since he's been here. Point blank. Jake Ryan showed promise rushing the passer before blowing out his knee, and then Hoke (in a pure stroke of genius) decided to move him to MLB, and that has worked out awesome for Michigan's pass rush...oh wait... Hoke needs to go. Period. He is a glorified position coach that is in way over his head.

37 and a Michigan fan, ok, but it is CLEAR and OBVIOUS that you haven't being paying attention if you actually believe your own posts that this year's defense is the worst one you can remember. Goodness..

We're currently 9th in the country in run defense on a yards per game basis. Do I expect it to stay at this level through the entire conference season? No. Does that mean the run defense is terrible? Of course not.

We are also 28th in the country in pass defense on YPG basis.

Here are some stats for you:

MICHIGAN defense (post-Carr)

2008 (Rod's 1st year): 48th vs run, 87th vs the pass, 28.9 PPG against
2009: 91st vs the run, 67th vs the pass, 27.5 PPG against
2010: 95th vs the run, 112th vs the pass, 35.2 PPG against

2011 (Hoke's 1st year): 39th vs the run, 16th vs the pass, 17.4 PPG against
2012: 52nd vs the run, 5th vs the pass, 19.8 PPG against
2013: 29th vs the run, 66th vs the pass, 26.8 PPG against
2014: 9th vs the run, 28th vs the pass, 20.3 PPG against

How can you look at that and say our defense is the "worst in recent memory" and keep a straight face?

And how can the other guy say we have the "same" problems under each coaching staff? Is this an actual joke? Or were you guys serious?

[rdnk]

I still have nightmares about the 2010 defense. 11 cardboard cut outs would have been better than that defense.

Regardless, the loss to Utah at home is embarrassing. In 2008, RichRod did a better job against a better Utah team with a worse Michigan team.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Quote: Originally Posted by rdnk

I still have nightmares about the 2010 defense. 11 cardboard cut outs would have been better than that defense. Regardless, the loss to Utah at home is embarrassing. In 2008, RichRod did a better job against a better Utah team with a worse Michigan team.

That's fine. I agree it was not a fun game to endure. I was just trying to present the facts that are not up for debate. It is not debatable that Hoke's defenses are just flat better than Rod's, period.

Once we agree on what the facts actually are, then it's a matter of opinion on whether Hoke should be gone-zo or not. Most people think so. I am not quite there yet.

The mitigating factor for me is QB play. It's really hard to do anything good with awful QB play, like we've been getting. I haven't seen this since Nick Sheridan and Steve Threet were awful the year before Tate Forcier. I just can't explain how Devin Gardner has gone backward in his development. Is it scheme? Something psychological? Is he hurt? It's baffling.

[l3ulvl]

Team Gone-zo

[Illustrator76]

Quote: Originally Posted by WaitTilNextYear

37 and a Michigan fan, ok, but it is CLEAR and OBVIOUS that you haven't being paying attention if you actually believe your own posts that this year's defense is the worst one you can remember. Goodness.. We're currently 9th in the country in run defense on a yards per game basis. Do I expect it to stay at this level through the entire conference season? No. Does that mean the run defense is terrible? Of course not. We are also 28th in the country in pass defense on YPG basis. Here are some stats for you: MICHIGAN defense (post-Carr) 2008 (Rod's 1st year): 48th vs run, 87th vs the pass, 28.9 PPG against 2009: 91st vs the run, 67th vs the pass, 27.5 PPG against 2010: 95th vs the run, 112th vs the pass, 35.2 PPG against 2011 (Hoke's 1st year): 39th vs the run, 16th vs the pass, 17.4 PPG against 2012: 52nd vs the run, 5th vs the pass, 19.8 PPG against 2013: 29th vs the run, 66th vs the pass, 26.8 PPG against 2014: 9th vs the run, 28th vs the pass, 20.3 PPG against How can you look at that and say our defense is the "worst in recent memory" and keep a straight face? And how can the other guy say we have the "same" problems under each coaching staff? Is this an actual joke? Or were you guys serious?

No, it's CLEAR and OBVIOUS that you haven't being paying attention if you actually believe your own posts that Michigan's defense in recent years has been good. I'm not going to sit here and argue with someone who has no idea what he is talking about (e.g. you). Stats can easily lie. Most of those stats were padded by the 3 cupcake games that Michigan plays every year (or by feasting on the low rung B1G teams). Then the B1G schedule begins and Michigan starts getting handled by REAL competition. Remember the Ohio State game last year? Michigan lost after going for 2 because Brady Hoke was thoroughly convinced that Michigan's D couldn't even get ONE stop because they sucked the entire game. What about giving up 33 points to South Carolina (again, REAL competition) in the Outback Bowl?

When Michigan actually plays REAL competition, they can't generate a pass rush, they can't stop the run, they can't stop the pass, and their overall defense isn't very good. Period. Believe whatever you want to and continue to fool yourself with stats, but the reality is that Michigan's defense just hasn't performed well against the big boys (you wanna talk stats/numbers? (2013) 30 points to Notre Dame, 43 points to Penn State, 47 points to Indiana, 30 points to Michigan State, 42 points to Ohio State, and 31 points to Kansas State). I guess since Michigan held mighty Akron to 24 points last year you consider that a good thing, huh?

Here's a freebie for you: Your "good" defense ain't a "good" defense unless you can play it against legit/top level competition. Michigan's "good" defense can't be played against legit/top level competition, therefore it isn't very "good" at all. It really is that simple. Am I saying that Offense is NOT an issue as well? Absolutely not. This WHOLE Michigan team is jacked up from top to bottom.

Case closed. Let it go.

[Sportsbuck]

Is Michigan's defense better in comparison to the RichRod era? Yes, no doubt. Still doesn't mean it's at acceptable levels for Michigan.

I want Hoke gone because a strong Michigan is good for the B10, and there's no way Michigan will be strong under Brady Hoke.

[Illustrator76]

Quote: Originally Posted by sportsbuck

Is Michigan's defense better in comparison to the RichRod era? Yes, no doubt. Still doesn't mean it's at acceptable levels for Michigan. I want Hoke gone because a strong Michigan is good for the B10, and there's no way Michigan will be strong under Brady Hoke.

Exactly. Thank you.