gopadres's Blog
My last two games I played were both extra innings in which the computer hit walk-off HRs to win the game. The first, I tied it in the 9th and it stayed that way until the 13th only to have the AI suddenly calcute through some magic preprogrammed algorithm that it was time for it to win. The second, I went up by one run in the 10th, and again the AI decides that it was time to tie it and eventually hit the HR in the 15th. I ended up with 5 runs, 22 hits. That means I had plenty of chances where I should have scored, but even with runners in scoring position and the contact/timing feedback showing "wheelhouse" and "perfect", the ball just happened to be hit right at the CPU fielder on multiple ocassions. Hmmm...weird.
So, even though I am BLOWN AWAY by the amount of detail and do enjoy certain elements of MLB 12, I do question it's realism. It's not fun knowing that at any time the CPU will predetermine the result, usually in its favor. I have left sliders alone and play on veteran hitting, allstar pitching. I'm very disappointed that on veteran hitting, the odds of me getting an rbi on a well hit ball favor the CPU. I can understand if this was the case on allstar or higher.
I know there have been many discussions/arguments on "comeback code" but that's not what I'm talking about. I don't mean just situations when the CPU is behind - I'm referring to situations where I should score and I don't. (Although I have experienced times when my 2B strangely makes a throwing error on the 2nd out that allows the CPU to tie it in the 9th. Hmmm...weird.)
I'm not sure how much longer I'll play MLB 12 because of this. Add in the same boring commentary and it seems I stop playing earlier and earlier every year. Which is sad because I love The Show.
# 1
Dazraz @ Mar 24
I actually made a comment regarding the MLB The Show series some time ago referring to an element of scripting within the game. This varies from anything as obvious as trailing teams being given a boost & often getting the opportunity to tie up games to something more subtle as creating a scenario to lead into a commentary moment within the game. I enjoy this game but I do find that, whatever you do & however you adjust the sliders, certain events are prescripted & will occur regardless.
# 2
MLBGeek @ Mar 25
I had similar difficulties, especially when playing on All Star Hitting/ All Star Pitching. Then I switched to All Star Pitching / Veteran Hitting. I still had some of the same problems but won a couple more games. Finally, I restarted Franchise mode, using Veteran Pitching / Veteran Hitting. I found that alleviated a lot of the problems, and I had much more realistic outcomes. I still lose a fair amount of games but they aren't frustrating (I know the frustration you are referring to). Veteran should not be considered "easy" but rather "normal".
# 3
gopadres @ Mar 26
Just last night, I was up 2-0 in the 7th. CPU ties it, games goes into extra innings. AI decides in the 13th to hit the walk-off. Hmmm...weird.
# 4
chrishthomas @ Mar 26
Please forgive, what I am sure will turn out to be a long post.
I, too, have seen my share of events that just make me shake my head or even contemplate throwing the controller out the window. I posted frequently last year when I was playing '11 and it was my first experience with the show, I've read Nomo's recent blog about the average runs per inning in The Show versus reality, and now after reading this blog, I'll offer my own opinion.
I believe the developers when they say there is no comeback code. Also, I do not think that outcomes are scripted or predetermined. However, that's not to say that I think the game plays the same in certain situations. And, the best way I know to describe it is by saying that on too many occasions the "randomness" of baseball, doesn't feel very random.
That is, a gold glove third baseman with a .985 fielding percentage just happens to bobble an easy grounder in the 8th or 9th inning (or in any inning after I have just taken a lead) and allows the leadoff runner to get on base. Sure it can happen, but that particular scenario, or some derivation thereof, seems to happen too often--almost predictably so.
Or, all of a sudden, when the CPU needs a runner, free swinging hitters (and even pitchers who are batting) seem to develop Ted Williams-like discipline and foul off pitch after pitch and layoff incredibly close pitches before eventually working out a walk or manage to push some dribbler through the infield. What's more, I've often noticed that after that leadoff runner gets on, the CPU typically follows up with a single or double with the very next batter--and in many cases on the first pitch of the at bat (which doesn't sound sinister, other than if you look at the overall tendency of the CPU to take the first pitch of an at-bat).
Anyway, errors at the worst possible time, incredibly disciplined at-bats, unlikely strings of hits, etc. - these are all a part of baseball and not seeing them from time to time would be very unrealistic. However, for my tastes, that seem to happen too often, or beyond these breakdowns are almost predictably common.
I do not know the logic that is programmed into the game, and I certainly haven't examined the hundreds of thousands of lines of code that go into creating a game like this. But, it feels to me as if some attributes of players are over-emphasized at certain points in the game (maybe clutch ratings), or maybe there is something in the game that increases the probability of fielding errors in high pressure situations. But, because of this, game play at times feels, if not predetermined, at least like you are fighting against overwhelming odds just to get normal results.
With this mindset, I have changed the way I do things a bit. I have taken off the variable strike zone (for me that was incredibly frustrating, as it seemed bad calls really contributed to some of these game-changing situation). For what it's worth, I've noticed that even with this feature turned off, there is some variability in calls. Balls that are definitely balls are called balls, clear strikes are called strikes, but borderline pitches actually have a bit of variation that I can live with.
Then, after I've given up one of those leadoff hits that always seem to haunt me late in the game, I make sure that the first pitch to the next batter is out of the strike zone. If he still wants to swing fine (generally they won't), and it puts me in a hole to start the at-bat, but it seems to have alleviated some of quick hits in succession.
I haven't figured out a solution to the errors, they seem to come at the worst time. And, for me, a major frustration is that the CPU really tends to make me pay for any runner that reaches on an error--they come around to score on me with at a very high rate.
Just as an example, last night, top of the eighth in a 1-run game (I'm winning), I thought I had stranded a leadoff triple at third by striking out the next batter and by getting the next batter to pop up to shallow left field. Then, with a 2-2 count on the ensuing, I get the final batter of the inning to hit a foul pop up that my 3rd baseman should have handled easily - it was literally four steps outside the line, and he had several seconds to get under it and wait. I had him directly on the ball indicator, but then instead of adjusting to the ball's trajectory, he lets it get behind him, just out of his reach as he does that spinning-pirouette-missing-the-fly-ball move. Next pitch, is a sharp single to right and the tying run scores in the top of the eighth. Fortunately, I managed to strand that guy at third after a subsequent walk and then a single.
Score is still tied in top of the ninth with two outs, and my clutch reliever, gives up a seeing-eye single on an 11-pitch at bat, followed by a 2-run homer by Chase Utley, followed by a Ryan Howard homer. Now in retrospect, those are two guys you don't want to face in the ninth, and each is capable of putting the ball out of the park. However, both were 0-3 for the game with 5 Ks between them, and in truth, and if things had played out more naturally without extending the 8th inning, and then the unlikely two-out single with two out in the 9th, I wouldn't have had to face them (at least not in the ninth).
By the same token, during a game this morning before I came to work, I had a tight game dragging into the 11th and neither of us seemed to want it. But, in the 11th, with two outs, I hit a sharp grounder to short, he overthrows the first baseman and I advance to 2nd. Next batter, first pitch swinging I hit the ball up the middle it makes it the outfield, I come around third trying to score, and should have been toast at the plate, the throw and the tag beat me, but I'm called safe.
It does work in the player's favor from time-to-time, but my general impression is that doesn't feel natural.
I, too, have seen my share of events that just make me shake my head or even contemplate throwing the controller out the window. I posted frequently last year when I was playing '11 and it was my first experience with the show, I've read Nomo's recent blog about the average runs per inning in The Show versus reality, and now after reading this blog, I'll offer my own opinion.
I believe the developers when they say there is no comeback code. Also, I do not think that outcomes are scripted or predetermined. However, that's not to say that I think the game plays the same in certain situations. And, the best way I know to describe it is by saying that on too many occasions the "randomness" of baseball, doesn't feel very random.
That is, a gold glove third baseman with a .985 fielding percentage just happens to bobble an easy grounder in the 8th or 9th inning (or in any inning after I have just taken a lead) and allows the leadoff runner to get on base. Sure it can happen, but that particular scenario, or some derivation thereof, seems to happen too often--almost predictably so.
Or, all of a sudden, when the CPU needs a runner, free swinging hitters (and even pitchers who are batting) seem to develop Ted Williams-like discipline and foul off pitch after pitch and layoff incredibly close pitches before eventually working out a walk or manage to push some dribbler through the infield. What's more, I've often noticed that after that leadoff runner gets on, the CPU typically follows up with a single or double with the very next batter--and in many cases on the first pitch of the at bat (which doesn't sound sinister, other than if you look at the overall tendency of the CPU to take the first pitch of an at-bat).
Anyway, errors at the worst possible time, incredibly disciplined at-bats, unlikely strings of hits, etc. - these are all a part of baseball and not seeing them from time to time would be very unrealistic. However, for my tastes, that seem to happen too often, or beyond these breakdowns are almost predictably common.
I do not know the logic that is programmed into the game, and I certainly haven't examined the hundreds of thousands of lines of code that go into creating a game like this. But, it feels to me as if some attributes of players are over-emphasized at certain points in the game (maybe clutch ratings), or maybe there is something in the game that increases the probability of fielding errors in high pressure situations. But, because of this, game play at times feels, if not predetermined, at least like you are fighting against overwhelming odds just to get normal results.
With this mindset, I have changed the way I do things a bit. I have taken off the variable strike zone (for me that was incredibly frustrating, as it seemed bad calls really contributed to some of these game-changing situation). For what it's worth, I've noticed that even with this feature turned off, there is some variability in calls. Balls that are definitely balls are called balls, clear strikes are called strikes, but borderline pitches actually have a bit of variation that I can live with.
Then, after I've given up one of those leadoff hits that always seem to haunt me late in the game, I make sure that the first pitch to the next batter is out of the strike zone. If he still wants to swing fine (generally they won't), and it puts me in a hole to start the at-bat, but it seems to have alleviated some of quick hits in succession.
I haven't figured out a solution to the errors, they seem to come at the worst time. And, for me, a major frustration is that the CPU really tends to make me pay for any runner that reaches on an error--they come around to score on me with at a very high rate.
Just as an example, last night, top of the eighth in a 1-run game (I'm winning), I thought I had stranded a leadoff triple at third by striking out the next batter and by getting the next batter to pop up to shallow left field. Then, with a 2-2 count on the ensuing, I get the final batter of the inning to hit a foul pop up that my 3rd baseman should have handled easily - it was literally four steps outside the line, and he had several seconds to get under it and wait. I had him directly on the ball indicator, but then instead of adjusting to the ball's trajectory, he lets it get behind him, just out of his reach as he does that spinning-pirouette-missing-the-fly-ball move. Next pitch, is a sharp single to right and the tying run scores in the top of the eighth. Fortunately, I managed to strand that guy at third after a subsequent walk and then a single.
Score is still tied in top of the ninth with two outs, and my clutch reliever, gives up a seeing-eye single on an 11-pitch at bat, followed by a 2-run homer by Chase Utley, followed by a Ryan Howard homer. Now in retrospect, those are two guys you don't want to face in the ninth, and each is capable of putting the ball out of the park. However, both were 0-3 for the game with 5 Ks between them, and in truth, and if things had played out more naturally without extending the 8th inning, and then the unlikely two-out single with two out in the 9th, I wouldn't have had to face them (at least not in the ninth).
By the same token, during a game this morning before I came to work, I had a tight game dragging into the 11th and neither of us seemed to want it. But, in the 11th, with two outs, I hit a sharp grounder to short, he overthrows the first baseman and I advance to 2nd. Next batter, first pitch swinging I hit the ball up the middle it makes it the outfield, I come around third trying to score, and should have been toast at the plate, the throw and the tag beat me, but I'm called safe.
It does work in the player's favor from time-to-time, but my general impression is that doesn't feel natural.
# 5
tril @ Mar 26
to say that the AI win scripted to win with walk off homerun in teh tenth would mean taht for you to tie the game in the ninth would have to be scripted also. or if you strile out the last batter with abss loaded situation would have to be scripted also.
Dang if IM the CPU/AI then I would be pissed as much as the user.
I have adifferent take. I believe the game plays out like a chess game against a cpu/ai. maybe a little more cmplex than that.
meaning certain actions will trigger certain reactions, its just about outsmarting the Ai in these situations.
the picthes you throw etc all determine how the cpu will approach the game.
again its like bases loaded 3/2 count, game is on the line, the batter clearly knows hat the pitcher has to pitch in the strike zone. then it becomes a 1 in 4 chance of what pitch he'll throw, in most situations the pitcher will use his best pitch the one he has the most command over. thats why there are so many grandslams or base hits in thsoe situations.
thast my take. Its not scripted
Dang if IM the CPU/AI then I would be pissed as much as the user.
I have adifferent take. I believe the game plays out like a chess game against a cpu/ai. maybe a little more cmplex than that.
meaning certain actions will trigger certain reactions, its just about outsmarting the Ai in these situations.
the picthes you throw etc all determine how the cpu will approach the game.
again its like bases loaded 3/2 count, game is on the line, the batter clearly knows hat the pitcher has to pitch in the strike zone. then it becomes a 1 in 4 chance of what pitch he'll throw, in most situations the pitcher will use his best pitch the one he has the most command over. thats why there are so many grandslams or base hits in thsoe situations.
thast my take. Its not scripted
# 6
tril @ Mar 26
to say that the AI wins are scripted to win with a walk off homerun in the tenth would mean that for you to tie the game in the ninth would have to be scripted also; or if you strike out the last batter with bases loaded that situation would have to be scripted also.
Dang if IM the CPU/AI then I would be pissed as much as the user.
I have a different take. I believe the game plays out like a chess game against a cpu/ai. maybe a little more complex than that.
meaning certain actions will trigger certain reactions, its just about out smarting the Ai in these situations.
the pitches you throw etc all determine how the cpu will approach the game.
again its like bases loaded 3/2 count, game is on the line, the batter clearly knows that the pitcher has to pitch in the strike zone. then it becomes a 1 in 4 chance of what pitch he'll throw, in most situations the pitcher will use his best pitch the one he has the most command over. thats why there are so many grandslams or base hits in those situations.
thast my take. Its not scripted
Dang if IM the CPU/AI then I would be pissed as much as the user.
I have a different take. I believe the game plays out like a chess game against a cpu/ai. maybe a little more complex than that.
meaning certain actions will trigger certain reactions, its just about out smarting the Ai in these situations.
the pitches you throw etc all determine how the cpu will approach the game.
again its like bases loaded 3/2 count, game is on the line, the batter clearly knows that the pitcher has to pitch in the strike zone. then it becomes a 1 in 4 chance of what pitch he'll throw, in most situations the pitcher will use his best pitch the one he has the most command over. thats why there are so many grandslams or base hits in those situations.
thast my take. Its not scripted
# 7
thaSLAB @ Mar 27
I'm sure the Rangers feel this way after game 6 of the 2011 World Series too. Or the Pirates about Jerry Meals deciding "it's time to go home". Mariano Rivera 2001 WS? Bill Buckner? Luis Castillo? Steve Bartman? All part of real-life comeback code.
# 8
gopadres @ Mar 27
Slab: You missed my point - read it again. Especially the part about veteran difficulty. If I wanted "wheelhouse/perfect" hit balls by my best hitters to be caught with RISP, I'd play on Legend. On the second lowest difficulty, I should score in that situation. Period. It's not about the CPU coming back that irks me, it's about the game not letting me score in a situation where I probably should.
# 9
jestep123 @ Mar 27
I should score in that situation. Period. It's not about the CPU coming back that irks me, it's about the game not letting me score in a situation where I probably should.
I read through this whole thing. I understand the frustration here BUT....I hope you can see the irony in saying that you "should" score or the AI "shouldnt" catch this or that line drive when you hit the ball perfectly.
Arent you then also asking for a specific and what you think should be, scripted outcome?
I read through this whole thing. I understand the frustration here BUT....I hope you can see the irony in saying that you "should" score or the AI "shouldnt" catch this or that line drive when you hit the ball perfectly.
Arent you then also asking for a specific and what you think should be, scripted outcome?
# 11
mgsmith119 @ Mar 27
I've experienced similar problems with NBA 2K12. It seems almost like I have to be up by more than 3 points if the CPU has the final possesion of the game, because the CPU will always hit a 3 at the buzzer. It doesn't matter if I'm playing against the Thunder and I deny the ball to Durant, Westbrook or Harden will hit a 3, even if it is well defended. I think sometimes the programmers go out of their way to make the endings of games as exciting as possible.
# 12
dtlm6 @ Mar 27
I've experienced similar issues. Currently just started a franchise season. In four games, I've scored 1, 2, 4 and 2 runs. Playing veteran with hitting and pitching, slowly working on sliders to get a fun level of play. Would like to see the scoring based on the pitchers on the mound. A third or fourth starter on a bad team should not be throwing 7 innings of 1 run ball. Hopefully, I can get the sliders adjusted. Agree that the game looks great. I'm determined to make this game work so it's fun.
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