Power/Gap Rushing

[onetonmartin]

I've been playing my 5th All Madden franchise for a while and decided to shift gears from running a lot of stretch and zone runs, to utilizing more Power & Gap plays. For whatever reason I am having a hard time gaining yardage on these plays as the D-line ends up blowing it up. (HB Blast, ISO, Power O)

So I tried to trade for all power linemen, even Quinten Nelson and Ronnie Staley, but they still consistently get beat at the line of scrimmage.

Am I scheming this wrong? How are you finding luck running with power runs with counters mixed in?

To note:
- I'm avoiding the speed burst button
- Been trying to mix in play action and pass plays
- Running to the D's weak side when possible.

[CM Hooe]

Power, Duo, and Counter from I-Formation are some of my favorite plays in Madden 23, and run blocking as a whole is my favorite part of the Gen-5 Madden games. When everything is blocked up correctly and you have the right personnel, they are beautiful to watch play out (especially Counter).

The thing is, to run these plays effectively, you really have to know how your personnel matches up against the defensive front and personnel you are up against. For example, Counter is more effective against under fronts; let the pulling guard from the front side kick out the force defender and follow your fullback through the hole.

It is also useful to know the blockers' assignment rules for gap-scheme running plays. For example, with Power-O, a play-side offensive lineman's read progression is "Gap - On - Linebacker"; he will look to block a line of scrimmage defender in his gap first, if there's no one there he looks for a defender directly in front of him, and if there's no one there he finally looks to advance to a linebacker, typically looking to seal the first player he finds attacking from the weak side. The fullback in Power-O is going to seal out the force defender - who the force defender is changes based on whatever the defense calls - and the puller looks to find the first unblocked defender from the weak side to create a lane for the runner between his block and the fullback's seal. Counter reverses these assignments; instead the puller finds the force defender and the fullback finds the first unblocked defender.

The Gap-On rules will determine who gets double-teamed at the line of scrimmage and how you should read the play to find a running lane. For example, Power-O vs Over fronts tend to hit behind the outside hip of the play-side tackle, while Power-O vs Under fronts tend to hit behind the play-side tackle's inside hip.

It is important to note that the defense can screw up the combo blocks pretty easily by calling blitzes or placing additional defenders on the line of scrimmage pre-snap. If you suspect a blitz is coming towards the side you want to run the ball, check out of your run into a different play.

Finally, it useful to find offensive linemen and fullbacks with the right Superstar abilities. Post Up might very well be the most underrated ability in Madden; put it on your play-side guard and whatever combo block he gets involved in is basically won immediately. Zack Martin is incredible at this, running Power-O with the Cowboys against base defenses is basically a cheat code. Puller Elite is useful for the pulling guard, but I find that having > 70 SPD and ACC is a bit more important; I need a guard who can actually get to the force defender to try to block him. Quentin Nelson at 64 SPD and 67 ACC is a bit too slow for my liking. Nasty Streak only matters for lead blockers and open-field blocking, so it is specifically useful for fullbacks and also offensive linemen who climb into the second level of the defense having already won their combo blocks.

[CM Hooe]

One more thing - if you call Counter, try to call versions of it where you don't have two pulling offensive linemen. In my experience, plays with two pullers such as Singleback Ace - HB Counter get blown up in Madden very easily.

Look for plays like Singleback Bunch - Counter Y or Strong-I H-Slot - Counter Wk instead where the lead blocker through the hole is either a tight end or fullback.

[MakePostGreatAgain]

Quote: Originally Posted by onetonmartin

I've been playing my 5th All Madden franchise.... For whatever reason I am having a hard time gaining yardage on these plays as the D-line ends up blowing it up. (HB Blast, ISO, Power O)

In every cfm ive had after about 3 or 4 years of a run trad offense the ai just devolves into showing blitz while in a cover 3 or 1. And im throwing play action bombs with cannon arm qbs to counter and hitting them stupidly regularly.... Would you describe the schemes the ai is showing you? If i run a lot a year or two all the ai teams start showing blitz over a cover 3/1

I havent figured out a way to make them fear a pass first offense after that. They'll let you PA iso 9 Go routes or slants all day, but no more running a power run or gut run for big yards. I draft speed WRs first and strength oline second, kill the ai and theyll show me blitz 3 of 4 downs. I also have trouble just running i think


IMO it's something with cfm and rushing against the AI. I'm here to learn more

My longest cfm is just me running iso once then iso pa go all game. AI rarely plays my WRs straight up with safety help, always showin blitz

[Kevin McKoy]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

One more thing - if you call Counter, try to call versions of it where you don't have two pulling offensive linemen. In my experience, plays with two pullers such as Singleback Ace - HB Counter get blown up in Madden very easily. Look for plays like Singleback Bunch - Counter Y or Strong-I H-Slot - Counter Wk instead where the lead blocker through the hole is either a tight end or fullback.

So last year during the speed threshold debate, you drew up some interesting calculus (I never took it ) and it's driven me crazy ever since. You gave examples of Orlando Browns 40 and split, along with Rugg's times.

For this year did you do a speed test similar to what you propose? If so, what did you land on.

If not, how did you do the math and get the peak momentary velocities you got? Is there a calculator that can assist me? If not, are there any shortcuts I can take to get said peak velocity for other players?

[onetonmartin]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

Power, Duo, and Counter from I-Formation are some of my favorite plays in Madden 23, and run blocking as a whole is my favorite part of the Gen-5 Madden games. When everything is blocked up correctly and you have the right personnel, they are beautiful to watch play out (especially Counter). The thing is, to run these plays effectively, you really have to know how your personnel matches up against the defensive front and personnel you are up against. For example, Counter is more effective against under fronts; let the pulling guard from the front side kick out the force defender and follow your fullback through the hole. It is also useful to know the blockers' assignment rules for gap-scheme running plays. For example, with Power-O, a play-side offensive lineman's read progression is "Gap - On - Linebacker"; he will look to block a line of scrimmage defender in his gap first, if there's no one there he looks for a defender directly in front of him, and if there's no one there he finally looks to advance to a linebacker, typically looking to seal the first player he finds attacking from the weak side. The fullback in Power-O is going to seal out the force defender - who the force defender is changes based on whatever the defense calls - and the puller looks to find the first unblocked defender from the weak side to create a lane for the runner between his block and the fullback's seal. Counter reverses these assignments; instead the puller finds the force defender and the fullback finds the first unblocked defender. The Gap-On rules will determine who gets double-teamed at the line of scrimmage and how you should read the play to find a running lane. For example, Power-O vs Over fronts tend to hit behind the outside hip of the play-side tackle, while Power-O vs Under fronts tend to hit behind the play-side tackle's inside hip. It is important to note that the defense can screw up the combo blocks pretty easily by calling blitzes or placing additional defenders on the line of scrimmage pre-snap. If you suspect a blitz is coming towards the side you want to run the ball, check out of your run into a different play. Finally, it useful to find offensive linemen and fullbacks with the right Superstar abilities. Post Up might very well be the most underrated ability in Madden; put it on your play-side guard and whatever combo block he gets involved in is basically won immediately. Zack Martin is incredible at this, running Power-O with the Cowboys against base defenses is basically a cheat code. Puller Elite is useful for the pulling guard, but I find that having > 70 SPD and ACC is a bit more important; I need a guard who can actually get to the force defender to try to block him. Quentin Nelson at 64 SPD and 67 ACC is a bit too slow for my liking. Nasty Streak only matters for lead blockers and open-field blocking, so it is specifically useful for fullbacks and also offensive linemen who climb into the second level of the defense having already won their combo blocks.

This is great CM Hooe, thank you!

I need to study up on the difference between Over and Under fronts to understand it more. I'll look into it, try some practice and in-game, then report back.

[onetonmartin]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kevin McKoy

So last year during the speed threshold debate, you drew up some interesting calculus (I never took it ) and it's driven me crazy ever since. You gave examples of Orlando Browns 40 and split, along with Rugg's times. For this year did you do a speed test similar to what you propose? If so, what did you land on. If not, how did you do the math and get the peak momentary velocities you got? Is there a calculator that can assist me? If not, are there any shortcuts I can take to get said peak velocity for other players?

I'm very interested in this as well. Thanks Kevin.

[CM Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by onetonmartin

This is great CM Hooe, thank you! I need to study up on the difference between Over and Under fronts to understand it more. I'll look into it, try some practice and in-game, then report back.

You can easily identify an Over front by looking for which defensive tackle is aligned over the outside shoulder of an offensive guard (the 3-Technique defensive tackle).

If the 3-Tech is aligned to the offense’s run strength (the side with more blockers in the formation core, typically the side with an attached tight end), you’re looking at an Over front.

If the 3-Tech is aligned away from the offense’s run strength, you are looking at an Under front.

If there is a DT over the outside shoulder of both guards, odds are there is also a nose tackle directly across from the center and you are looking at a Bear front. Don’t try to run inside against a Bear front unless you are extremely confident that your center and guards can win one-on-one.