NBA Draft Lottery/Draft/Offseason thread.

[MikeVic]

I like the Shaq trade IF they still get a second legitimate scorer, like a Redd.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I don't think that 70 year old Shaq is who you think he is.

this is true - and as a celtics fan this doesn't make Cleveland any scarier. In fact, by Shaq taking minutes away from Big Z all you're going to do is clog the paint for when LeBron drives. Big Z was ideal for LeBron because he's a jump shooter and he pulls the interior D out of the paint, thus opening holes for LeBron to drive. Shaq does no such thing.

You could make the argument that by doing that and removing the defense+gritty play of wallace+sasha (role players though they were) this is a step back

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

I don't see how this trade does anything but push LeBron out the door.

I think its an admission that they know he has no interest in resigning with them. If he was, he'd have signed a max extension already. They know they have exactly one year to try to win a championship.

[spleen1015]

Cleveland is stupid for getting/going after Shaq. I think it is a big step backwards for them.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Was listening to an interview of a 'NBA draft expert' on local KC radio. He said that the Mavericks are targeting DeMarre Carroll with the 24th pick. They traded down a couple of spots to pick up some extra picks while still being in a spot where Carroll should be still available (most project him at the end of 1st round). Of course, this all depends on if he's selected sooner (doubtful) or if a better player slides down the board to them (possible).

[larrymcg421]

Shaq clogging the lanes certainly didn't seem to hurt D-Wade. And when LeBron drives and the defense converges, there'll be no hope of stopping even 70 yr old Shaq when LeBron gets him the ball at the hoop.

[Gary Gorski]

I think that's a great point on Z being able to step out and free the lane and a whole host of other problems that go with this.

What do you do with Varejao now? Let him walk? How do you play him and Shaq at the same time? At least with Z, Varejao can post and Z can step out. He's going to want big money - what reason is there to pay him that kind of dough now?

Cleveland still doesn't have a great three point shooting threat. The fact that the other defenders can sag off perimeter players to either help on the drive or rotate to take away the passing lane to Shaq is a factor too.

[DeToxRox]

Columnist Peter Vescey's NBA sources indicate the Rockets are "leaning toward" trading Tracy McGrady, Carl Landry and Aaron Brooks to the Suns for Leandro Barbosa and Amare Stoudemire.

Stoudemire has been disgruntled in Phoenix for a while now, and ESPN's Ric Bucher reported on Thursday that he will indeed be traded. The Suns would acquire two solid young players in Landry and Brooks, while gaining financial flexibility with T-Mac's expiring $22 million contract. So far nothing is official, but stay tuned throughout what promises to be a hectic draft day.

[MikeVic]

Houston would rock if they could swing that deal and re-sign Artest.

[spleen1015]

What the hell is the point in making picks 6-30 of Chad Ford's mock draft only available to insider users?

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

What the hell is the point in making picks 6-30 of Chad Ford's mock draft only available to insider users?

I chuckled when I saw that, too. I can't imagine that there is one person who thought to themselves, "well, I've been on the fence about Insider, but seeing who gets taken at pick #23 is worth paying for it."

I guess the theory is that picks 1-5 are the teaser. But, for 95% of the people who care about the NBA draft, it is more than a teaser. It is the whole story.

Just a strange decision to break it up like that. Either make the whole thing insider, like they do for Kiper, or make it general. Although I guess ESPN knows what they are doing based on the insane amount of $$ that they have made. Who I am to give them business advice?

[jbergey22]

Im not certain it is such a horrible deal for Cleveland. They didnt give up anything and Shaq was pretty good on the offensive end last year. Shaq can up his defense when he needs to and I really doubt Howard is going to be able to bully him. Shaq can also open up the outside a little more and is a very good passer that will create shots for Gibson and Wally.(if he stays)

This will also give Cleveland a low post threat which they have been lacking. Big Z is anything but a low post threat.

[stevew]

I'd probably let Andy walk, unless he settles for a 3-4 year deal starting at 6m MAX. He's not worth much more than the MLE.

And he's been one of my favorite players, at least until the stupid hold out in 2007

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Im not certain it is such a horrible deal for Cleveland. They didnt give up anything and Shaq was pretty good on the offensive end last year. Shaq can up his defense when he needs to and I really doubt Howard is going to be able to bully him. Shaq can also open up the outside a little more and is a very good passer that will create shots for Gibson and Wally.(if he stays)

This will also give Cleveland a low post threat which they have been lacking. Big Z is anything but a low post threat.

Not a bad deal for Cleveland at all. They have a one year window. That's it. Chances are LBJ isn't coming back so go for it now because it's going to be a dark, dark period coming up for Cleveland after this season.

[Logan]

Knicks bought the Lakers' 29th overall pick for $3 million. ESPN says they're looking for a guard at that slot, but maybe a little extra ammo for a trade into the 6th/7th spot?

[Malificent]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Not a bad deal for Cleveland at all. They have a one year window. That's it. Chances are LBJ isn't coming back so go for it now because it's going to be a dark, dark period coming up for Cleveland after this season.

What's the reasoning behind LeBron leaving? I mean, I understand "big markets", but he's also a hometown boy who has a fanbase completed devoted to him. In addition, he's already a huge national sports presence - not like being in New York is really going to make him MORE famous nationally. I assume he gets more local advertising contracts, but is the money for those so huge as to make him basically have to leave even if he wanted to stay in Cleveland?

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Malificent

What's the reasoning behind LeBron leaving? I mean, I understand "big markets", but he's also a hometown boy who has a fanbase completed devoted to him. In addition, he's already a huge national sports presence - not like being in New York is really going to make him MORE famous nationally. I assume he gets more local advertising contracts, but is the money for those so huge as to make him basically have to leave even if he wanted to stay in Cleveland?

Well it's easier to attract other FA to New York or other big markets then it is a place like Cleveland or Detroit. Plus New York is building a team right now for LeBron and there is a better then good chance Chris Bosh is going to join him wherever he goes. Add in one of the better Head Coaches in the NBA who has a working relationship with and New York seems like a dream destination.

He said he wants to be the first billion dollar athlete as well. He will get a lot more chances for that in NY then Cleveland.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by Malificent

What's the reasoning behind LeBron leaving?

An inept front office and head coach might have something to do with it to.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Malificent

What's the reasoning behind LeBron leaving? I mean, I understand "big markets", but he's also a hometown boy who has a fanbase completed devoted to him. In addition, he's already a huge national sports presence - not like being in New York is really going to make him MORE famous nationally. I assume he gets more local advertising contracts, but is the money for those so huge as to make him basically have to leave even if he wanted to stay in Cleveland?

Its been estimated since he entered the league that his value as an endorser is worth $100 million more in New York or LA than it is in Cleveland.

[Icy]

Originally Posted by Logan

Knicks bought the Lakers' 29th overall pick for $3 million. ESPN says they're looking for a guard at that slot, but maybe a little extra ammo for a trade into the 6th/7th spot?

Can you trade picks for cash in the NBA? didn't know.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Icy

Can you trade picks for cash in the NBA? didn't know.

For up to $3 million. The Suns did it several years in a row, I believe, when they were deluded that they were close to a championship.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by Icy

Can you trade picks for cash in the NBA? didn't know.

No, the Lakers will still have to make the pick. The Knicks will just have to trade the appropriate amount of salary fodder and send a nice check to the Lakers - at least I think that's the case anyways.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

The Celtics bought Rondo from the Suns.

[jbergey22]

DeRozen seems like a freakish athlete. I havent actually seen much of him play, seemed to disappear in USC games I watched. What do those of you that have seen him play a lot think of his game? He seems like one of the few players that could actually be a star in this draft based on his skill set.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Icy

Can you trade picks for cash in the NBA? didn't know.

I wish they couldnt! The Twolves traded Roy similiar to this method and it pi$$ed me off. They initially drafted Roy ahead of Foye but then promptly traded him for Foye and some cash considerations.

[Icy]

This is the first NBA draft i'm going to watch live, I'm really curious about Rubio's future. I'm pretty sure he will end in the Kings or Thunder, but Spanish websites have him rumored to go to the Knicks or even Celtics (i don't believe that one).

Btw, I have seen that it starts at EST 7:30PM, but... does it really start at that time or is there a lot of ceremony stuff before the clock starts?

[DeToxRox]

Sounds like the Kings are gonna pass on Rubio. Or so reports Yahoo. I don't see Rubio falling past either of Minnesotas picks.

[Gary Gorski]

The Kings allegedly are saying they would pass on him but I don't know if I buy that - the biggest rumor right now with Rubio is the Thunder take him to trade him to the Knicks for David Lee in a sign and trade. Minnesota may still try to get to #2 to get him but Memphis wants Love and 5 or 6 and that won't (or at least shouldn't) happen

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

No, the Lakers will still have to make the pick. The Knicks will just have to trade the appropriate amount of salary fodder and send a nice check to the Lakers - at least I think that's the case anyways.

Im pretty sure they just buy it outright.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Its been estimated since he entered the league that his value as an endorser is worth $100 million more in New York or LA than it is in Cleveland.

As national as our economy is, I just don't get this. Why would Nike pay him more if he was playing for the Knicks or Lakers? He's in the same league, making the same playoffs, getting the same national exposure. Tiger Woods seems plenty valuable without being a New York or LA athlete...

[Gary Gorski]

In looking it up the draft pick's trade value is $0 until he signs a contract so I think what has to happen is that LA actually makes the pick for the Knicks and then trades the rights to the pick for cash to NY and then NY signs the player.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

The Kings allegedly are saying they would pass on him but I don't know if I buy that - the biggest rumor right now with Rubio is the Thunder take him to trade him to the Knicks for David Lee in a sign and trade. Minnesota may still try to get to #2 to get him but Memphis wants Love and 5 or 6 and that won't (or at least shouldn't) happen

As a semi-Knick fan I would sign for that in a second. Lee is a very good player but won't be worth the money he gets.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Logan

As a semi-Knick fan I would sign for that in a second. Lee is a very good player but won't be worth the money he gets.

I agree. Lee does a lot of things well but is not worth a #2 in any draft. If he played better defense he probably would be.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Sounds like the Kings are gonna pass on Rubio. Or so reports Yahoo. I don't see Rubio falling past either of Minnesotas picks.

This could get interesting as from what I can tell Memphis or Sacremento have no interest in Rubio and Okl City just drafted Westbrooke last year so I doubt they really want to take another PG. I really hope the wolves dont have to trade up to get the guy they want but it never seems to work that way for that franchise.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

As national as our economy is, I just don't get this. Why would Nike pay him more if he was playing for the Knicks or Lakers? He's in the same league, making the same playoffs, getting the same national exposure. Tiger Woods seems plenty valuable without being a New York or LA athlete...

Because there are more NY/LA fans with more money that will buy the merchandise because he plays in their city.

[Bigsmooth]

I used to live for the NBA draft. Now I don't even get a halfie....stupid Clay Bennett etc. al.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

As national as our economy is, I just don't get this. Why would Nike pay him more if he was playing for the Knicks or Lakers? He's in the same league, making the same playoffs, getting the same national exposure. Tiger Woods seems plenty valuable without being a New York or LA athlete...

this type of thing baffles me too. i can understand it with athletes that are not global superstars, but for your Jordan's, your Tiger Woods', etc. it really doesn't seem to matter.

The only thing it will mean is more Knicks games on TV, which means more advertising dollars for the networks, but LeBron doesn't see any of that.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Ok, so Dallas trades #22 to Portland for #24, #56, and their worst 2nd next year.

...Why?

#56 and a similar pick next year are worthless- guys drafted that low hardly ever make a team, particularly for a veteran squad like Dallas where most of the team is set.

SI

Little cheaper to have #24 in the draft. Plus 2nd rounders are commodities as they aren't guaranteed.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

The Celtics bought Rondo from the Suns.

The Bulls bought Luol Deng from the Suns. I always wondered how good that team could have been had they kept their first round picks.

[RainMaker]

Rubio falling to the T-Wolves would be a godsend for them. They'd have the makings of a nice core and would garner some interest. It's be one of the teams I'd look forward to seeing come to Chicago to play.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Little cheaper to have #24 in the draft. Plus 2nd rounders are commodities as they aren't guaranteed.

Cuban also Tweeted that he felt they could get the guy they wanted at 24, so assuming he's right, he picks up a couple of shots on the roulette wheel at no cost.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

In looking it up the draft pick's trade value is $0 until he signs a contract so I think what has to happen is that LA actually makes the pick for the Knicks and then trades the rights to the pick for cash to NY and then NY signs the player.

Looks like this is right.

For example,

"Portland acquired the draft rights to 27th pick Sergio Rodríguez from Phoenix in exchange for cash considerations."

But Rodriguez is listed as being drafted by Phoenix. I thought they sold the picks, but it looks like they make the pick and then sell the rights. A technicality, they are in effect selling the picks.

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

The Celtics bought Rondo from the Suns.

Nope, the Suns paid cash to get rid of him:

Boston acquired the draft rights to 21st pick Rajon Rondo, Brian Grant and cash considerations from Phoenix in exchange for a 2007 first-round draft pick.

Originally Posted by gstelmack

As national as our economy is, I just don't get this. Why would Nike pay him more if he was playing for the Knicks or Lakers? He's in the same league, making the same playoffs, getting the same national exposure. Tiger Woods seems plenty valuable without being a New York or LA athlete...

Well, the national media is based in NY and LA, so I happen to think that he'll get more national exposure by being there than he does now. As for having a dedicated following in Cleveland, so what? He has more fans RIGHT NOW in NY than he does in Cleveland. Add in the fact that its easier to charge $150 for a pair of shoes in NY than in Cleveland, and I can see where he's way more valuable in NY than Cleveland.

Originally Posted by jbergey22

This could get interesting as from what I can tell Memphis or Sacremento have no interest in Rubio

I think he's going to be the bust of the year from what I can tell, his asset is passing and court vision. He has a horrendous shot. That passing and court vision won't look so impressive once everyone figures out he can't get around anyone on his own. I just don't read anything that indicates NBA skills here.

I agree with you that he'll make his way down to a stunned Minnesota.

The draft WILL go like this:
1) Griffin - duh
2) Thabeet - only big man in a big man hungry league
3) Steven Curry
4) Tyreke Evans
5/6) Rubio & Jordan Hill
7) James Harden
8) Johnny Flynn
9) DeMar DeRozen
10) Brandon Jennings
11) Tyler Hansbrough
12) Terrence Williams
13) Jrue Holliday

[spleen1015]

In the NBA, all if these trades you're hearing about really aren't official until, hell I don't know when. So, when you hear about these trades for picks, etc, the team who holds the pick originally drafts the player the other team wants. Then, whenever the day is, all of these trades become official and you see players being traded for each other, not traded for picks.

I think I have that right. Tell me to shut up if it's not.

[Logan]

I read yesterday that there's a time limit on when traded picks can be officially made by the receiving team...something like if its finalized by noon on draft day, any later and they need to put on the charade.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

I can't wait to see Howard abuse Shaq next season. The Suns never should have hired Kerr.

Mike D'Antoni had to talk Steve Kerr and Dave Griffin into making the Shaq deal. Neither wanted to do it. Kerr's been in a tough spot as the first thing he was told by the owner was to shave off $10 million from the salary while still being competitive. So, he had to move Kurt Thomas to Seattle (OKC now) for a trade exception and give them 2 first round picks. He was then told by his coach (Mike D) that the only shot they had at a playoff run was trading Marion for Shaq. Granted, he could have said no, but these were both in his first season as GM. These next two seasons will let us know how good a GM Kerr is.

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

the nba trading system and salary-dump trades really fuck with my enjoyment of the league.

Now it looks like both Oberto and Bowen may be coming back to SA in a few months. What a joke the NBA is if Jefferson, Oberto and Bowen are on SA's roster come October. But, the NBA trading system is ridiculous, so it shouldn't really surprise anyone. I'm guessing Pop isn't going to be quite as interested in the "trade approval board" if he ends up with Jefferson and 2 of the 3 guys he traded for him as he was when the Lakers added Gasol a few seasons back.

Originally Posted by JeeberD

There's a ton of speculation on the Rockets board that the Rox are going to trade TMac and Aaron Brooks for Amare Stoudamire and an expensive body (Barbosa is the most commonly seen name). Then they would use Carl Landry as trade bait to move up in the draft to get a PG to replace Brooks...

Arles, are y'all hearing anything like that out your way?

Anything's possible. I haven't heard of a straight salary dump for Amare and I doubt they do that with the cash they saved from moving Shaq. I could see Amare getting moved, but they would need more than a net of Aaron Brooks (esp if Barbosa goes as well). I think Amare stays as no one will be willing to offer what Phoenix wants.

One thing to think about is if Phoenix makes the #14 for #25 and their own pick in 2010 deal with OK City, you may see Amare dumped as well. That will be a clear indication they plan on sucking next season

[DeToxRox]

Another Amare rumor:

The Suns are in discussions with the Warriors to send Amare Stoudemire to Golden State for center Andris Biedrins and the No. 7 pick in Thursday's draft.

[Arles]

I could see that one more than the Houston one. But I'm not sure how the salaries work.

Vince Carter may get moved to Orlando for Alston, Battie and Lee:

Sources: New Jersey Nets to ship Vince Carter to Orlando Magic for Rafer Alston - ESPN

[MikeVic]

There goes me liking Orlando.

[Big Fo]

I like Lee and have never been a Carter fan but if Turkoglu resigns that will make a pretty nice starting five. I didn't know anything about Anderson but looking at his stats he seems like a decent rebounder and shooter who is 6'10''.

The ESPN.com trade machine says this is good for +7 wins next year so I'll focus on that instead of my dislike of Vince Carter. At least he only has two years left on his contract. With no Battie and Gortat likely on his way they'll have to get another big man at some point.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Hawks get Jamal Crawford (and a promise he won't exercise his out clause for two years) from the Warriors in return for Speedy Claxton & Acie Law.